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WANTED: Brave Early Adopters and Testers…

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TL;DR:

WANTED: Early adopters! Although we have a thorough beta test process in place, the number of beta testers compared to our user base is small. We need a bigger share of users for a second stage of testing. Join our Phoenix-Firestorm Preview Group and await instructions! secondlife:///app/group/7ba4569c-9dd9-fed2-aaa7-36065d18a13c/about

Extended version:
We are approaching our next release, and since it will be a big one (fully caught up on Linden Lab’s latest code), we want to expand our testing as much as possible.

Participants should be fairly knowledgeable with Firestorm, willing to install and run the viewer builds that are offered and eager to provide feedback to us in a timely fashion. You should also expect that bugs and other problems may crop up.

If interested, please join our in-world Preview group, called “Phoenix-Firestorm Preview Group,” and await group notices providing links to builds to test.

NOTE: If you are in the preview group and running a “preview build” viewer, please do not ask for support in our main support group, as you will be on a build our regular users do not have. To avoid confusion, you can ask for help in the preview group.

Jessica Lyon
Project Manager
The Phoenix Firestorm Project, Inc

  • It was good to hear Oz Linden put some pressure on you guys at today’s 3rd party viewer meeting. I think he knows that you guys are seriously “slagging” behind.

    The MizANG

    April 10, 2015

  • Purely LL’s own fault if they keep adding utterly broken stuff…

    Ansariel Hiller

    April 11, 2015

  • It’s not anyone’s fault. For years everyone ranted about LL’s slow viewer development and now that they’re moving at a good pace the TPV’s (including Firestorm) are having trouble keeping up, no surprise there. The TPV’s devs are unpaid volunteers and the LL devs are paid employees. It does prove the old adage “be careful what you ask for you might just get it”. I’ve been running the LL beta viewers with very few glitches so the claim that LL “keep adding utterly broken stuff” rings hollow; LL’s not in the business of making viewers that are easily modded to a TPV preference, such is the bane of mod developers. I do eagerly await the next Firestorm beta release. Shiny new viewers are fun to play with.

    Cincia Singh

    April 12, 2015

  • Very few glitches? Let’s have a little recap:
    * Project Interesting: Fail! Didn’t solve any of the missing prims, but instead introduced attachments detaching during teleports randomly on rare occasions and scripted changes of transparency made to objects visually getting reverted
    * AIS3/SSA update: Fail! Turned teleports and regions crossings into a lottery if you attachments stay attached. Or go flying! After a few sims, most of your attachments detached. And appearance changes result in unpredictable results thanks to the added race conditions. Apart from inventory operations being slow now.
    * HTTP Pipelining: Fail – at least with CDN! Unless you want to wait minutes for some meshes to load after the pipeline got stuck, it’s just bad.
    * Snapshot floater update: Actually nice, but by default the UI design flaws make you facepalm.
    * Maintenance updates: Always adding a general bunch of new fails, e.g. the URI parser update: Unless you like “nolink>” all over the place it’s a fail (they fixed it in the meantime, but the fix is a lol)

    Need more examples? 😉

    Ansariel Hiller

    April 12, 2015

  • Funny – Project Interesting, HTTP Pipelining and Server Side Baking/Appearance have actually HELPED so far as I can see.

    Might want to be rather careful with those generalizations there – all it takes is one person with a different experience to disprove them.

    Dark Wolf

    April 13, 2015

  • Uh oh you got it backwards. One persons experience is purely anecdotal and neither proves nor disproves anything.

    Moo

    April 18, 2015

  • Nope, nothing’s backward whatsoever. The generalization is that the above projects are simple failures – this means that they do not work, at all, for anyone.

    If they work for anyone, then the generalization is quite false.

    For some of the above projects, they do indeed work for users. They do not work for everyone, but they do work – which is the point.

    A bit more thought before you respond next time, perhaps?

    Dark Wolf

    April 19, 2015

  • Those complaints are the same complaints people have been making about every viewer, including Firestorm, since the LL 1.23 viewer. Things are always falling off, not rezzing, disappearing, and TP’s failing. There’s nothing new in your list.

    Cincia Singh

    April 14, 2015

  • Never looked at any of the JIRAs recently, hmmm?

    * https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-6925 (Gloriously causing all sort of attachment fails since AIS3 – unfixed)
    * https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-7688 (Worked around by setting request time out to 2 minutes until the general HTTP pipelining in cURL are fixed, still causing problems with CDN as soon as a pipeline gets stuck)
    * https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-8631 (HTTP Pipelining fail again)
    * https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-8711 (Another one…)
    * https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-8806 (Project interesting fail)
    * https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-6299 (Project Interesting fail: changing group tags stalling ALL downloads)
    * https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-4163 (Project Interesting again…)

    Just a few. Please get your facts right before commenting next time!

    Ansariel Hiller

    April 17, 2015

  • Project interesting was about leading things closer first (the stuff you would (in their opinion) be more likely to be more interested in. Basically a work around so while it likely takes just as long to load the closer stuff should be higher/quicker on the list in some ways similar to the cloud covers ruthing it’s still there except at least with Project interesting what is nearest should load first. which some people would prefer that at least compared to random loading order I can imagine

    waycomp2002

    April 15, 2015

  • The schadenfreude was inappropriate. Phoenix Firestorm Project’s developers came through not only with a working product, but the cleanest beta I’ve ever seen from them, given the sheer amount of Linden Labs tech implemented at one time.

    Firestorm 4.7.1 (45302) (Firestorm Preview-64) is the best-running 64-bit version of Firestorm Viewer yet. The previous version of 64-bit Firestorm crashed for even mundane operations such as changing graphic resolution or hardware settings in Preferences. I can’t get Firestorm Preview-64 to crash that way, and I’ve made every conceivable adjustment to the viewer. It is as stable as any version of Firestorm Viewer I’ve ever used.

    Jessica, congratulations. I know that other people are complaining about crashes and bugs, but I can’t account for their experience. I’m using probably the very least expensive laptop computer sold today which meets Firestorm Viewer’s specifications to run the beta-test, running Windows 8.1, with 4 Gb of ram and an Intel N3540 quad-core processor. I bought it at Micro Center for US$259. It’s the second-least expensive Winrdows OS laptop they sell.

    I literally can’t reproduce the malfunctions I read described in the tester group Chat channel. As far as I’m concerned, you and your team have done an excellent job of delivering a stable. powerful Second Life viewer.

    Jessica, please thank your team for me and accept my thanks for doing a wonderful job!

    Best regards,
    Patty de Chenier

    Patricia de Chenier

    April 21, 2015

  • I’m no coder and not involved but i check the repository once in a while and I see the struggle with active devs. So, I certainly hope that’s a really bad joke. If LL wants to see faster progress on FS releases, it’s rather up to them to ask kindly if they might help in development. So far, every FS release has been freaking stable for me. Can’t say that about the official releases recently. Kudos to Ansariel btw. Great work!

    Trin Trevellion

    April 11, 2015

  • I’d personally think LL doesn’t give a rat’s tail about “some 3rd party viewer”. That aside, gladly throwing myself in to help test these upcoming releases out. I have bare-minimum coding experience, but am fairly good at understanding syntax and logic, and have a good amount of Firestorm usage under my belt as I actively enjoy tinkering with settings and functions…ehehe…..

    Rassandra Gendal

    April 12, 2015

  • Joined the preview group 🙂
    Been on firestorm since it’s very first pre pre pre alpha lol
    Amazing how far it’s come smiles

    Snookums San

    April 10, 2015

  • Do you have any interest in Opensim testers or only SL?

    Aine Caoimhe

    April 10, 2015

  • Aine I think the main interest is in testing on the main Second Life Grid, as that is where it is primarily designed to function. As there are two version of the Viewer that go in to testing, one being the 32 bit Havok version which cannot access the OpenSim grids. but does access the main Second Life grid, and the Second Life Beta grids only. Due to Linden Lab Licensing agreements for Havok use. The other being the 64 bit which is a non Havok version, which can access the OpenSim grids. Now that said, that does not mean that anyone who test the viewer, cannot and does not access the OpenSim Grids. Just that the OS grids, have different code bases so the viewer will naturally preform slightly different on those grids. Due to the differences in those grids, I am also aware that not all of the OpenSim grids support the V2/V3 viewers. Just if you do use it on the OS grid, please insure that the jira’s contain the appropriate information to verify that it is reproducible on that grid you find the bug on or the main second life grid so it can be corrected.

    animorf Kawadias

    April 11, 2015

  • Yes of course. OpenSim testers are very welcome.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 11, 2015

  • I just joined the group WOOT On a serious side, any idea when the first test build comes our way ? Thanks.

    Steve Mahfouz

    April 11, 2015

  • […] can see the invitation here: WANTED: Brave Early Adopters and Testers… This request makes it clear this will be a second group different than their beta […]

  • IS there an anticipated date for the new full release?

    Princessleah Sabretooth

    April 12, 2015

  • […] she urged those with Second Life accounts to join the Firestorm Early Adopters and Testers group. Second Life account holders can also attend Firestorm Classes, which usually end with a […]

  • I have no complains about both Ll latest official viewer and the Tpv’s that are updating its code to follow it.
    But the truth is that majority of the SL and in some expense, Open sim, communites, do only knows about a viewer, Firestorm and therefore one can understands the wish of Ll to push forward as one can easy understand the reluctance of rushing from Firestorm developers.
    From someone that does not use it, i should not post for sure, but as i always install the latest 64b version and at least run it once, my advise is to not rush on this, cause LL will not give any support to anyone, if next version will broke any features and that burden will be only on Firestorm developers.
    Solve and test it widely before moving as you always did and let LL wonder why so few use its viewer, even if it works perfectly on most parts.

    zzpearlbottom

    April 13, 2015

  • I’ll admit I haven’t read everything here, only the first few comments. In there, people are already seeking someone to blame. To everyone who would continue to seek someone to blame I say this:
    If you think you can help, then help. If you think you know someone who might be able to help, refer them.

    Vulcan Viper

    April 14, 2015

  • what happen to the TTT (Tool Tip Tuesday) last week, doubting we’ll get one this week btw. Do we need to to assume that TTT now means (as it always have) Things take Time?

    Lisbeth

    April 15, 2015

  • I think I would rather have a stable viewer then a flashy one I keep having loads of issues with. I find firestorm more stable for me then linden labs’s. not that they don’t do a good job cause they do The point of the post I think though is that having more testers they have a better chance of finding issues and fixing them before normal release making for the most part a more stable viewer for everyone that uses it. Great work everyone that is involved with firestorm and thank you.

    waycomp2002

    April 15, 2015

  • With all the faults of the viewers and I have experienced all those mentioned, there is no other platform that equals SL and there is no other viewer than Firestorm (and I have had the occasion to pull my hair with it) there is no other viewer I have used that equals Firestorm. For umpaid developers, the FS team provides a clearly priceless viewer.

    Newme Allardyce

    April 15, 2015

  • As someone who has spent years in software QA, I can tell you that it doesn’t do any good to pressure the devs. I would much rather have a product that is more bug free and feature complete than have something that has show stopper bugs. I am grateful for the unpaid efforts of all of those who work on FS, and while I am anxious and excited about being a tester, I am content to wait until they have decided that it’s ready for test. FS devs, you have my deep gratitude. Keep up the good work!

    The Dude Lebowski

    April 16, 2015

  • Changing ui goes back to default on restart

    waycomp2002

    April 17, 2015

  • Waycomp, are you using the Windows 10 dev preview with AMD graphics?
    If so, this is a known problem, but it affects all V3 viewers not just 4.7.1.
    There is a bug in the latest AMD driver for Windows 10 which causes the graphics card name to be unicode garbage. The graphics card name is stored in settings.xml. Because the name is unicode garbage, the xml file will not parse and settings cannot load. There should be a forthcoming fix from AMD in their next Win 10 driver.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 18, 2015

  • I don’t mean in a graphics way I mean any sett8ngs changes any changes are not kept on restart and check marks in preferences was in the night build too but not in the last official build. even the advanced pull down menu has to be re activated. with the nightly I thought it would be fix3ed when the viewer was released I do not seem to be the only one with this issue. could it be the os is not letting it change the preferance files seems to mark alot of files read only

    waycomp2002

    April 18, 2015

  • But are you using Windows 10 with AMD graphics?
    If so, see http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-15874

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 18, 2015

  • One issue I see with the preview program is a lack of documentation, especially regarding new features. The point of this preview, to my understanding, was supposed to be to find things that may not work right. As the viewer has already been through Beta, odds are any malfunctions will be the result of hardware or settings – but still things the team will want to know about.

    The problem comes about when you get to a new feature. Unless something blatant and drastic happens, how do you know if it’s actually working as intended? Asking in the group is of little use. I tried that. I was told that this is a feature you ‘try it and see what happens’. To me, that flies in the face of the stated purpose for this entire exercise.

    If this response had not come from someone whose profile identities them as a member of FS Support staff, I’d have thought nothing of it. After all, a large portion of the questions I see asked in that group are basic “How-To” type questions that still have the same answers they have always had. So peer-to-peer support is taken with a grain of salt.

    All it would take is a notecard sent to the group saying “This new feature is supposed to do *this* when you invoke it.

    Gryphon Ronas

    April 18, 2015

  • Phoenix Firestorm Project’s developers came through not only with a working product, but the cleanest beta I’ve ever seen from them, given the sheer amount of Linden Labs tech implemented at one time.

    Firestorm 4.7.1 (45302) (Firestorm Preview-64) is the best-running 64-bit version of Firestorm Viewer yet. The previous version of 64-bit Firestorm crashed for even mundane operations such as changing graphic resolution or hardware settings in Preferences. I can’t get Firestorm Preview-64 to crash that way, and I’ve made every conceivable adjustment to the viewer. It is as stable as any version of Firestorm Viewer I’ve ever used.

    Jessica, congratulations. I know that other people are complaining about crashes and bugs, but I can’t account for their experience. I’m using probably the very least expensive laptop computer sold today which meets Firestorm Viewer’s specifications to run the beta-test, running Windows 8.1, with 4 Gb of ram and an Intel N3540 quad-core processor. I bought it at Micro Center for US$259. It’s the second-least expensive Winrdows OS laptop they sell.

    I literally can’t reproduce the malfunctions I read described in the tester group Chat channel. As far as I’m concerned, you and your team have done an excellent job of delivering a stable. powerful Second Life viewer.

    Jessica, please thank your team for me and accept my thanks for doing a wonderful job!

    Best regards,
    Patty de Chenier

    Patricia de Chenier

    April 21, 2015

  • One fundamental bit of advice to everyone in the Testers Group – make sure your OS is as stable as it can be BEFORE installing the Firestorm Preview/Preview-64!

    Initially, I was having some of the same problems other testers were describing with Firestorm Preview and Firestorm Preview-64. Then I noticed that I was also having stability issues with (of all things) Internet Explorer!

    So I decided to uninstall the Firestorm Previews, then run System Restore in Windows 8.1 to the latest point in which I remembered my entire computer running reliably.

    THAT eliminated the Internet Explorer problems AND, when I re-installed Firestorm Preview and Firestorm Prevew-64, every problem I’d noticed with the Preview versions except the issue of unusually long time taken to finish “Fetching ” inventory – an issue that prevented me from being able to access things I needed in Inventory.

    The “unholy long time for items to be Fetched in Inventory” issue went away after I cleared Inventory cache. I did that as a last resort, since I saw the weirdness surrounding my Inventory as a stability issue which could cause me to lose items from Inventory).

    But that is really the last issue I had with usability of Firestorm Preview, even of the 64-bit version. If the devs could address why Firestorm sometimes takes so long to Fetch Inventory at the start of a Second Life session, that would be very nice. It might solve a budding stability issue with our Inventories.

    Otherwise – Congratulations!!!!

    Patricia de Chenier

    April 21, 2015

  • Does this mean that you are going to be using a bug tracker such as Jira? This would be super useful!

    Kris Strom

    April 22, 2015

  • I’ve been trying the latest preview build, and I have to say, that it’s awesome! It has all the latest goodies from the default SL viewer (hover height, snapshot filters, etc), and best of all… Great FPS on the Mac. I’m now getting over 50 FPS as opposed to 8-10 FPS on previous Firestorm builds (With shadows disabled, of course… Shadows on gives me 15-20 FPS now). My main reason for not using Firestorm on Mac for a long time was the really bad FPS, whereas I always had great FPS in the default SL viewer… Now I can finally use Firestorm again! Thank you guys for this awesome preview update! And, thus far, I haven’t experienced any issues. I can’t wait for the final “official” release!

    David Venter

    April 23, 2015

  • The Fetch Inventory at the start of a Second Life session is not a issue of only firestorm, it happens with all the tpv’s i tried but Ll viewer.

    zzpearlbottom

    April 23, 2015

  • Your last update the latest one doesn’t work, I don’tr know what Linux software you are putting out but it don’t work. I tried to installed this as user, as root and guess what, it STILL DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!! The previous version runs fine, no problems, latest NOT!

    Tom G

    April 27, 2015

  • Tom, if you are having a problem running 4.7.1 on Linux, please can you file a JIRA issue and someone will help: http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 28, 2015

  • In looking through the change log I don’t see anything about updating to a newer RLV api. Please consider doing this before release. There has been a lot of change to api recently and it contains many useful features that creators really can’t take advantage of because the most popular rlv viewer (Firestorm of course) does not support them.

    Talia

    Talia Davidov

    April 29, 2015

  • Kind of scared for a new one because I am still on 4.6.5 because the newest updates I cannot get voice to even work nor sound… wonder if thatll be fixed up….

    Emerald

    April 30, 2015

  • Well, I’ve been testing this out and am going back to the stable release version until the issue with random AV parts and huds detaching on teleport or sim crosses can be fixed. My understanding is this will require more code merging and that there needs to be a viewer release before that can happen for some reason. It’s a showstopper issue for me as I do a lot of SL aviation and when one’s flight instrument hud vanishes on a semi regular basis, it’s sort of a problem. This will be the first time in the 8 years I’ve been using Second Life that I’ll be voluntarily going back to an earlier version of any viewer because something was just that badly broken. I really hope it ends up being the only time.

    Crim Mip

    May 3, 2015

  • Ao logar no viewer Firestorm. Recebi o ” recado ” de update. E então cliquei no link, que me direciona aqui.
    É muito confuso para nós que temos que traduzir a página. Ter que ficar procurando onde clicar para fazer o UPDATE.
    Sugestão: Coloquem um atalho simples e objetivo. Como exemplo: Clique aqui para UPDATE.
    Creio, que não lhes custa, criar este atalho para ajudar os estrangeiros que usam o viewer do Firestorm .
    Agradeço a atenção.

    Juuh

    May 4, 2015

  • I just joined the Preview Group and hope I am able to help with dne Linux x64 stuff. I am an experienced linux system administrator, have knowhow about audio systems, libraries and stuff and already have built my firestorm from sources now and then.

    Daniel Millgrove

    May 10, 2015

  • Can’t say I really saw the need to kill the Screen space eflections and antialiasing. Just because some people have slower computers or laptops doesnt mean the power users should have their experience degraded. Whoever thought that was a good idea should have their job degraded to janitor.
    As far as all of the other bugs, i think even Terminex would turn their backs on this job. Not impressed.

    Mr Coffee

    May 15, 2015