Your browser (Internet Explorer 6) is out of date. It has known security flaws and may not display all features of this and other websites. Learn how to update your browser.
X

Today we have to block version 4.6.9

translation services

The time has come again when we have to apply a block to an old version of Firestorm Viewer. This time the block will be more impactful than most because it is the last version to run on Windows XP and Mac 10.6, so I thought I would take the time to explain again why we block.

First, it is quite common for a software firm to force upgrades or encourage their users to update whenever possible. This is because the updates always have fixes to known bugs that their users continue to experience. This applies to us, any time folks on older versions ask us for help with problems that we in fact already fixed ages ago. Users on old versions sometimes warn their friends away from Firestorm because of some problem they’re having, not realizing they’d no longer have that problem if they were up to date.

Second, functionality. Linden Lab are continually updating server side stuff to provide newer, better, faster and more reliable functionality. As they do so they often drop the old functionality, and while they do notify us, and we try to notify you, most of our users remain unaware that changes are happening until suddenly they can no longer function. They then think we’re at fault for the breakage or believe it’s a bug that can get fixed, when in fact the only problem is that they are not up to date.

Third is the shared experience issue, which LL take very seriously, as they should. It is expected in any software environment that user A should experience the world in the same way that user B does; otherwise the effect of immersion is broken, and that is especially bad in a virtual world type of environment. The shared experience is also part of LL’s Third Party Viewer Policy, which we must adhere to.

Fourth, the alternative to Firestorm implementing blocks according to our own system is us implementing blocks according to Linden Lab’s system. We don’t see this as a better option. Linden Lab want us to use their auto-updater code, which works as follows:
LL issues a viewer update. LL Forced updateWhen you go to launch the viewer you see the following. You are then forced to download and install the update before you can move forward. If for some reason that update does not work for you, you’re stuck; there is no going back to an older version. Even if you reinstall the older version you will be hit with that same forced update as soon as you launch it again. We don’t agree with this approach and feel that folks should have some level of grace period and an alternative they can switch back to if the update does not work for them, at least so they can get back inworld and ask for help. So we decline to use LL’s updater in favor of our own system of blocking versions, which will give users an average of nine months’ grace period before they have to update. And in the case of the current blockage? A year, folks… we gave you more than a year.

I personally hate blocking old versions, and many others on our team do as well. I would be much happier to use LL’s updater, and folks can then direct their frustration toward LL instead of me and the Firestorm team. But I would rather absorb the backlash for applying blocks after a considerable grace period than to cause users to be stuck and unable to log in because an update doesn’t work for them.

4.6.9 was released in December 2014, which makes this version well over a year old. If we do not implement our blocks, then we risk LL forcing us to use their updater. It is for all the above reasons that we block old versions of our viewer.

Win XP and Mac OSX 10.6 users cannot use more recent versions of Firestorm because LL updated the infrastructure for compiling the viewer after our 4.6.9 release. The technical explanation would be much more detailed, but put in the simplest terms, the viewer can no longer be compiled to run on Windows XP or Mac OSX 10.6, period. If someone wants to claim they can compile the current Firestorm code to work with XP and Mac 10.6, then we look forward to their code contribution on our JIRA. Folks, don’t hold your breath. Update your operating system.

In the meantime XP users can temporarily switch to (but not receive support in Firestorm groups for) the CtrlAltStudio Viewer—or any other viewer that is not current with Linden Lab’s code—until you can get your operating system up to date. Or until those viewers move ahead to current LL code as well.

Sincerely,

Jessica Lyon
Project Manager
The Phoenix Firestorm Project, Inc.

  • Jessica I think you are correct in this post, as one of the beta testers I do hate when old version of Firestorm Viewer have to be blocked. But I also hate the auto updater, that LL uses a lot more so it does become a lesser of two evil’s in my opinion. Yet I also feel that it is, also not only illogical to expect something to work forever. It is also impractical to expect a computer, that was built in say 2000 or even as new as 2005 to support the load that Second Life now requires. As the resources, that Linden Lab now uses with Second Life viewer code eat up more resources then they did back in 2002, during the closed beta of Second Life.

    As it is kind of like, expecting an old Model T, to support the largest version of a Caterpillar Diesel engine. You might can do it, with a lot of heavy modification, but it becomes a situation of is it worth it! In most cases it is not, as it would diminish things to a point of not being anywhere near what it originally was.

    But there is always alternatives, such as older viewers like control alt studio or even the OS grids. Which will probably also eventually move past, what the older viewers can support.

    animorf Kawadias

    April 7, 2016

  • I would respectfully disagree. Yes, things will eventually stop working, but there’s a difference between when things naturally stop working, and when someone intentionally breaks them. This isn’t like when your motor won’t work in new cars. This is more akin to the Department of Transportation putting magnetic mines on their roads to blow up any car that has too much metal to be “modern”.

    Now no analogy is perfect, (for instance, blocking people from SL won’t kill anyone, unlike a mine) but it’s an important distinction that LL is intentionally going out of their way to block people, rather than it being a side-effect of an API change.

    Guri

    June 19, 2016

  • What a bunch of bullshit.

    Jasonwoods

    April 7, 2016

  • If you wish to remain on XP or Mac OS X 10.6, you can use CtrlAltStudio to utilize the same feature set as Firestorm. This block is not a new thing as it was mentioned quite some time ago that it was coming. While we cannot force you to upgrade, we have to force the ending of support for certain OSes based on code from the Lab.

    Hatake Kohime

    April 7, 2016

  • Don’t like it or Deal with it.

    If you refuse to deal with it, Then don’t let the door hit you on your way out, You won’t be missed.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • Well, most people today are either on Windows 7, 8 or 10 but those who are still on Windows XP or… even Windows 95 (if that is still a thing) must have a serious good reason to still be on that operating system.

    I hate Windows 8 and Windows 10 with passion, so I believe I will stick to Windows 7 unless most video games require DirectX12 to run. So maybe some people out there are using Windows XP or lower because they do not like the new changes of the modern operating systems just as I hate Windows 10.

    I still believe at least one latest Viewer to support Windows XP should remain on Wiki where the description could be a bit misleading like.. “Download for Windows XP only” >.>

    Hyokkuda

    April 7, 2016

  • I use my laptop mostly for internet things. I log into SL to do whatever I need to do on there. I don’t have the funds to get a new laptop, as this one runs perfectly well still. So if you’d love to donate money to assist in my getting a new laptop, then by all means, I will gladly accept.

    Ineed

    May 1, 2016

  • Although I think I run on Vista. Not XP. Just occurred to me. So will this new update work then?

    Ineed

    May 1, 2016

  • Firestorm 4.7.7 32bit should run fine on Vista, but you may suffer from this Vista specific bug: http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-18045
    This is a bug in the viewer – it’s harmless & nothing actually gets broken by it but it’s annoying.
    If you have Vista 64bit & wish to install the 64bit version of 4.7.7, leave me a reply here with your avatar name – I’ll need to send you a fixed installer.
    The 64bit installer we have on the downloads page had a bug which causes a failed install on Vista 64bit.
    The 32bit version of 4.7.7 will however install & run just fine on Vista 64bit.

    Whirly Fizzle

    May 1, 2016

  • If your PC runs Vista, it should also run Windows 7, which is basically Vista with the bugs gone.

    Brayla Sana

    May 3, 2016

  • Actually not true. When Vista first came out, computer manufacturers chose not to upgrade their specs from the machines that ran Windows XP. Specifically, many Vista machines were released with only 1GB of RAM. Later on, after SP1 was released, this situation improved, but this is one of the reasons that there is no free upgrade to Windows 10 for Vista users.

    Lee McKay

    June 4, 2016

  • I am a Windows 7 lover, and was forced to try 8.1 when I bought a laptop. i was firmly convinced that I’d reformat the hard drive and install 7… but I decided to give 8.1 a fair test.
    Lemme tell you, once properly configured it’s actually better than Win 7. I call 8.1, “Windows 7 with a working Start menu.” Yeah, I know what you’ve heard – that 8.1 doesn’t have a Start menu. They don’t CALL it that, but that’s what it really is – and it’s the Start menu that 7 should have had all along.

    Lauren

    May 7, 2016

  • This effectively breaks the grid for builders like myself and forces us to deal with the grid scaling to camera problem. I am not happy about this since I rely on a consistent grid to build with proper alignment. I hope the bug is fixed in one of the next releases, because without it I am hampered in the ability to build correctly. While I understand the reasons why you had to block 4.6.9, I also have to take issue with one of the core functions of Second Life still broken. Regards.

    Yingzi Xue

    April 7, 2016

  • I have just found that Catznip R10 does not have this bug (or intended feature). I will be using an alternate viewer to build as long as the scaling functionality exists in Firestorm and LL viewers. Yes, it’s that important to me as a builder, to be able to use the build tools effectively, functionality I’ve been using since 2007.

    Yingzi Xue

    April 7, 2016

  • Have you filled a Jira for this issue? I haven’t seen a huge change in the way I build things in the past few years. I’m curious what’s causing you trouble.

    PatrickR Bleac

    April 8, 2016

  • Yes, Yingzi filed a JIRA issue – see http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-17822
    There is a LL JIRA issue too: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-10850

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • Slight correction – Catznip suffers from the same problem. I am now using Singularity for building. The Jira is “traiged”, not sure what that means.

    Yingzi Xue

    May 8, 2016

  • *triaged

    Yingzi Xue

    May 8, 2016

  • Good, it’s about time.

    Ziggy Alcott

    April 7, 2016

  • nao consigo abrir meu jogo no sl, porque?

    noemi

    April 7, 2016

  • Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. This thing worked for years and now all I have is eyes no matter what I do. Is this a product? I am a customer and I am telling you fuck you to death. Fuck you. Consider this feedback. Your motherfucking bullshit does not work worth a fuck and there is an absolute vacuum of support and advice. Fuck you. Die. Fuck you.

    Eric

    April 7, 2016

  • I’m sorry that you aren’t satisfied with your purchase of either the viewer or the ongoing after-sale support and service. To get a refund in full, please ask and we will cheerfully refund you every penny you paid.

    May I suggest an alternative viewer, a number of them are listed on http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_Directory

    Mister Acacia

    April 7, 2016

  • Stop being so overly dramatic. You probably just bake failed.
    Open inventory -> Outfits folder, right click any saved outfit -> Replace outfit.
    If that doesn’t help, see http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_bake_fail

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 7, 2016

  • Wow! I spent most of my life as a sailor, both in the Navy and Merchant Marine and I don’t even talk like that.

    Jackson Trimble

    April 11, 2016

  • Bye then, Don’t let the door hit you on your way out.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • if I have Win 7 what viewer can I use ??? help 🙂

    Lussy

    April 7, 2016

  • You can use any of the latest viewers.

    Hatake Kohime

    April 8, 2016

  • You can use the latest release with Win 7

    Starlight

    April 8, 2016

  • use some acid ti kill yourself, fucking imbecile.
    people who can’t read and can’t understand the text have no right to exist.

    all hail WinXP!

    April 8, 2016

  • Why are posts like this allowed to be viewed? And why can’t I report it?

    DoomRater

    April 8, 2016

  • Bye, Have a wonder time! Don’t let the door hit you on your way out. We won’t miss you.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • Lussy, you can use the latest Firestorm 4.7.7 release with Windows 7 – http://www.firestormviewer.org/downloads/
    Or the LL viewer, or any other TPV. Windows 7 is still fully supported on Second Life.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • Had to update since you decided to block it now my voice doesn’t work at all. When is the voice issue going to be fixed?

    Yokai Kami

    April 8, 2016

  • Yokai, is your voice working now?
    When you posted your comment there were grid wide voice issues – see http://status.secondlifegrid.net/2016/04/07/post2749/ and http://status.secondlifegrid.net/2016/04/07/post2750/

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • oh great .. because of this i cant even connect to second life any more.
    Plus i downloaded new updated version of Firestorm after Installing it all i’m getting this error ” Load Library failed with error 1114: A dynamic link library (DLL) initialization routine failed”…..
    i try troubleshoot too, did everything step by step but it ain’t working …everything was working good and perfect till yesterday, until you block 4.6.9 :/

    dev08

    April 8, 2016

  • Heya Dev,

    I looked up the 1114 error and it seems to be a common thing on systems with switchable graphics that have been updated to Windows 10, where the onboard intel card does not have driver support for Windows 10.
    Example threads:
    https://kb.acronis.com/content/56994
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/396890/discussions/0/458604254445517420/
    https://forums.atlauncher.com/thread-10935.html
    Following the advice on that video in the 2nd thread seems to have fixed people on multiple threads with this problem, so hopefully this will work for you.

    If you only have Intel graphics on your system and you have Intel HD graphics, Intel HD 2000 or Intel HD 3000 graphics, or anything marked as “No” for Windows 10 support on http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/graphics-drivers/000005526.html?wapkw=cs-034343 , then you will need to install the 32bit version of Firestorm 4.7.7 and apply the Intel fix – see here for details – http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_intel_fix_32bit

    If this doesn’t help please can you file a JIRA issue (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) so we can get your full system information and support will help you.
    Thanks!

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • hey Whirly
    Thank you very much for the support .
    just that vid worked for me good and have no problem now.
    In case , in future if i face any problem , i will look for your help again .
    once again thanks 🙂

    dev08

    April 8, 2016

  • Great! Thanks for letting me know 🙂

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • Even if Failstorm got some “bug fixes”, some new bugs always pop-up every time which were not there before and most of the times, it is just extremely annoying. So when a serious bug is just too annoying for you to handle and the previous Failstorm version you were on which seems more suitable for your needs is now blocked, it is rather frustrating.

    Nobody ever bother looking nor replied to my bug report concerning the normal and specular mapping textures in local and it is been extremely irritating since a long time so I had to switch back to a much older viewer because of it.

    Hyokkuda

    April 8, 2016

  • Nobody forces you to use Firestorm. There are many other fish in the sea. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_Directory

    Hatake Kohime

    April 8, 2016

  • Agreed that’s why many of us have dropped your product… Just saying. I do question your logic with Linden Lab policy as other viewers never seem to run into the blockage issue. Why are you being picked on?

    Stacie Meier

    April 23, 2016

  • Because it’s the only viewer that has the numbers to ACTUALLY matter worth a damn. WAKE UP.

    Someone that used to help

    May 2, 2016

  • Because more people use Firestorm than the actual linden viewer. If the Lindens were smart (they are not), they would hire the Firestorm team and merge the viewers.

    Brayla Sana

    May 3, 2016

  • We won’t miss you, Good Bye

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • Hyokkuda, thank you for filing the JIRA issue. It isn’t forgotten. No one has been able to reproduce the problem you are having yet unfortunately and you have us quite stumped 😉
    I’ll take another look at your issue today.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • You will not be missed, So Good Riddance.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • In case anyone wonders why some stick to old OS let me tell you one. I use Vista, now now, take a minute and a deep breath. Now that the horror has died down let me say it does everything an OS needs to do “for me.” That’s not why I use it entirely. I’m older than dirt. So are the programs I use for my creation of various items like clothing, textures, photo restoration etc. Upgrading would mean replacing all those old programs I use. That’s a very expensive proposition and I have already tried using them on newer windows. They don’t work and/or won’t load. I can’t afford to replace even my version of Photoshop and I don’t wish to start relearning everything that’s currently automatic for me. I wish someone would understand that personal preference is not a terrible thing. It’s comfy old shoes or your favorite old t-shirt that may not be right in style but they feel good. It’s also the speed and accuracy that come with long experience . Sorry I don’t fit into everyone else’s little square box but why must I? I do get so tired of software people pushing me around. It’s just a waste of my time and money . I could quite happily go back to windows 3.1.1 for work groups. Passes out the smelling salts. 😛

    Joycelyn

    April 8, 2016

  • Photoshop is a $20/month subscription through Adobe Creative Cloud. $55 a month gets you access to the whole collection of Adobe’s software. As for the other programs, I don’t know what you use but they possibly are quite expensive. No one says you cannot use both computers at the same time. Perhaps invest in a cheap laptop for SecondLife. You could also run a Linux distro from a USB stick to hold onto your current machine and still run the latest Firestorm.

    Hatake Kohime

    April 8, 2016

  • I don’t do anything more sophisticated than adding text to a photo in Paint, so I don’t know, but I thought GIMP was supposed to be the answer to Photoshop, since it’s free and designed specifically for use in sl. Not so? Or just not adequate?

    Avedon Andel

    April 9, 2016

  • Gimp is excellent if you need a free alternative to Photoshop.
    Gimp is perfectly adequate for all SL texture creating needs yes.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 9, 2016

  • The Gimp is fantastic but most professional (real life) photographers will tell you that its still not up to the capabilities of Photoshop.

    However, depending on your needs the Gimp may be just the thing. You can also use Seahorse on MacOS X (the Gimp built for MacOS X) or Inkscape (a free Illustrator-like program).

    In any case, I agree with you completely – a forced upgrade sucks. For instance – Windows versions routinely require serious hardware upgrades, whereas Macintoshes can be upgraded 3-5 times from their original OS before needing replacement.

    Just because one can understand why Firestorm blocks doesn’t mean we have to like it.

    Mei

    April 19, 2016

  • @Joycelyn – Thank you. I agree. Newer is not inherently better. It is some times worse: new, hidden bugs, unhelpful “features”, etc.

    I appreciate the SW producers that have supported the older OS’s until now. Looking at you FF.

    I don’t appreciate the new, shiny === good attitude … looking at SOME of you in FF.

    BC

    April 8, 2016

  • I would give you about a 98% guarantee that any of the “old” software you use would work just fine under Windows 7, 8 or 10, each of which has become infinitely more stable and yes, even faster on old hardware. You’re just shooting yourself in the foot staying on Vista.

    Lee

    April 20, 2016

  • Question,
    LL uses login subchannels pegged to a viewer version, TPVs don’t have access to those. All they have are their registered one TPV channel name, is that correct?

    Linda Brynner

    April 8, 2016

  • I don’t really understand your question Linda.
    TPVs can build on whatever channel they like, so can self compilers. For example I always build Firestorm set to the channel FizzleFire.
    You can also change the channel of a pre-compiled viewer by using the –channel parameter (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_parameters).

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • Such a lovely bullshit above.
    “change operating system buy new computer blah-blah-blah”.
    Dear americarps! The whole world is not a Murrica and if u easy can spent 300USD on some new shit it not mean someone in other countries can do the same (thanks to you, dear americarps).

    all hail WinXP!

    April 8, 2016

  • if you really have that much of an issue to be able to upgrade your pc after so many years, you shouldn’t be paying for internet and probably you shouldn’t be wasting your time in SL. not sure if the issue here is your ” ‘murica” or the inability of providing for yourself.

    Someone that used to help

    May 2, 2016

  • Can’t afford anything for an upgrade? Cannot spent a few bucks? Then you got far more bigger problems to deal with in RL than waste your time on the computer all day.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • This sucks !! My GPU will not support the newest version, and I can not afford the get a new computer. I hate the other viewers. Thanks for the HUGE let down.

    Bowin

    April 8, 2016

  • Is your computer a laptop or a desktop? You can buy a new desktop GPU for roughly $200. Search newegg.com for a card that meets y our budget.

    Hatake Kohime

    April 8, 2016

  • Do you know $200 in some contries are more than a month of work ?

    Tiberius

    April 17, 2016

  • Bowin, If you could run 4.6.9 you should be able to run 4.7.7, unless you are on Windows XP or Mac 10.6.
    It sounds like you are getting a graphics driver error with 4.7.7 though?
    If so, I suspect you have older Intel graphics and you are using Windows 10.
    If that is the case, you should be able to run 32bit version of 4.7.7 with the Intel fix – please see http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_intel_fix_32bit for details.
    If this does not help, please file a JIRA issue (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) and support will help you.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • The intel fix WORKED LIKE MAGIC !!! Thank you 🙂

    Bowin

    April 10, 2016

  • Great!
    Thanks for letting me know 🙂

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 10, 2016

  • I accept the rational behind the block. Actually, your product so you can do whatever you chose to do.

    That said, I would have preferred not to be kicked in the middle of a session. I logged in fine this morning. No notice. Kicked out in the middle of a class.

    A few days inworld notice would have been thoughtful. The notice would have allowed us prepare: notify friends, family, bosses, coworkers, etc.

    BC

    April 8, 2016

  • Hmm, the viewer block wouldn’t kick anyone offline who was already logged in. If you happened to be logged in when the block was added and the viewer crashed or got disconnected for other reasons then you would have been blocked from logging back in.
    There has been plenty of notice given about this block.
    It was announced 4.6.9 would be blocked in 3 weeks time on http://www.firestormviewer.org/firestorm-update-4-7-7-48706/

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • Thank you for including the link to the CtrlAltStudio Viewer.

    Out of curiosity, are you able to say how many existing Windows XP users you have? … how many Mac OS X 10.6 you have?

    BC

    April 8, 2016

  • Actually, yes.
    On Firestorm 4.6.9:
    The number of unique agents using Mac 10.6 was very small – 3 agents on Mac OS X 10.6.7 and 296 agents on Mac OS X 10.6.8.
    27 unique agents on Microsoft Windows XP x64 Edition.
    1987 unique agents on Microsoft Windows XP 32bit.
    Windows XP users numbered 12% of the total users still on Firestorm 4.6.9.
    Roughly 0.4% of ALL Firestorm users (across all viewer versions in use) were still using Mac 10.6 or Windows XP.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • Thank you for the info. I had not realized that so many non XP people were still using 4.6.9.

    BC

    April 8, 2016

  • EVERY TIME you make these so-called updates/improvements they just get worse and worse. Now I can’t even log in. Stop trying to fix something that AIN’T BROKE!!!! MY GAAWWDD you people SUCK with all these f’ing updates. Leave it alone!!! Everytime these updates are implemented, the screen is different, you spend a day trying to relocate your old stuff, this is f’ing bullshit.

    mea

    April 8, 2016

  • Mea, what error message are you getting when you try to login? Without proper details we cannot help you.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • Then leave Second Life, We won’t miss you. Now get lost.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • Hey! You there! Yes you, you angry-rude-offensive-inconsiderate-ungrateful person(s) spewing your vile comments here. Shut down your computer, go for a walk, do some yoga, learn how to meditate. Your anger is misdirected. If and when the time comes, that you evolve into a civilized person, and should you ever return to Second Life, enjoy your alternate viewer experience. 🙂

    Willow

    April 8, 2016

  • Depending on the comment, some of them should never have gotten past moderation.

    DoomRater

    April 8, 2016

  • So… any info on what to block/crack to keep using the same viewer when you don’t care about LL’s “same experience as others” crap and just want to stay as it is since it’s working, and with no intention of asking for fixes or updates?

    Halasy

    April 8, 2016

  • Halasy, yes you can work around the block.
    However, this is not going to help you for very long.
    There are changes coming soon from Linden Lab which are going to break 4.6.9 and all older viewers pretty badly.
    There are 3 changes coming, unsure in which order they will happen.

    1) All cashier services will require TLS 1.2 – From Linden lab “Anything that does not support TLS 1.2, will not be able to do any interactions with cashier or anything that involves money. This isn’t optional on our part or just an arbitrary choice on our part, this is a compliance requirement. ”

    2) When the new Bento avatar skeleton is released on the main grid, older viewers will see bento avatars very broken. Old viewers will also be very crashy around bento avatars because they do not know how to handle all the extra joints.

    3) This is the killer – back end inventory changes are coming which means that any viewer that doesn’t support AIS3 will not be able to fetch any inventory at all. Firestorm 4.6.9 does not have AIS3 inventory support.
    These changes *are* coming so it’s better to get updated now rather then login one day, not be able to use L$, constantly crash and have no inventory.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • That’s for the more detailed info and warnings, Whirly, but I still would like to reserve myself the right to delay it up to the very last moment when it becomes truly and completely unplayable, instead of being forced “for the future,” that’s all.

    Halasy

    April 8, 2016

  • Thanks*, not that’s.

    Halasy

    April 8, 2016

  • Whizzle can you explain how the cashier system is going to work?

    North Reisende

    April 10, 2016

  • K Im gonna curse but blocking older version prevents people like me from even playing cause our comps are complete shit and the fact that your system requires us to have a fucking update for our drivers when our drivers say they are up to day so thank you for fucking me!

    Shinbaki

    April 8, 2016

  • Shinbaki, if you on a Windows 10 system with older intel graphics and Firestorm 4.7.7 is tell you it cannot run because your graphics drivers are out of date, install the *32bit* version of 4.7.7 and apply the Intel fix as instructed here: http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_intel_fix_32bit

    If that doesn’t help, please file a JIRA issue (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) and support will help you.
    As long as you are not on Win XP or Mac 10.6, you will be able to run Firestorm 4.7.7.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2016

  • I will have to respectfully disagree with this. The majority of users today are windows xp users. millions love the old technology. And you must all keep one thing in mind: its because of windows xp why you all have your fancy OS”s today. Win Xp was legend back then a great OS. I love and treasure it greatly and respect the technology. In fact the majority of users prefer windows XP over the newer Operating systems! Because they say that the newer OS’s look more like those off a smartphone. So whats the point in having a big desktop pc or laptop something bulky and big and functions like a smart phone when you already have a smart phone and it fits in your pocket? Not only that, but the newer operating systems are more prone to fail or have bugs which can really irritate users greatly. Windows 8 was a disaster just waiting to happen, windows 8.1 maybe a slightly better fix but problems can still arise. windows 7 works best today as the newest OS however it too will soon be obsolete! and then users will be frustrated again that they have to push onto windows 8 or 8.1 minimum to be able to play most games and simulators. Look at windows 10. there where and still are many problem with it. I seen plenty of problem announced in the FS support group about windows 10 problems, bugs, issues, etc. This list goes on. Even today I seen some complaints. It goes to show that today’s computer and OS market is what the Americans call “shit” but since there is no other option they still buy and play. I can’t blame them I too would want to still play because i Love to play online but knowing there will be problems. But I am saying that all this can be made better but it is not because companies like Linden Labs would then lose money and they would complain and so on. Which goes to show that today’s industry isn’t good as we thought it be. But know I am not one to take sides here. I am only sharing my thoughts about this and trying to help other users too and point out some of the hidden facts about all this. In this war I am neutral. I have nothing against Firestorm ( I know its not the FS team’s fault and I know there is little they can do about keeping the older OS’s around) or Linden Labs (while knowing their bad history and behavior) , while i may get frustrated with the behavior of LL like all other users of Second Life. I know what game they are trying to play with me and I want no part of it nor will I allow them to get a penny from me for this stupid game they try to play with me. I know their “Casino” well and I am not a “sucker” to fall for their trump or trap card hidden in their poker deck.

    I think Linden Labs is just being their usual bad self’s and trying to pull as much money from us as possible. I bet they are working other OS and computer building companies to milk our wallets for their simulators. Not only that but not to mention the ridiculous prices in running a whole kingdom or estate. I as a estate owner taken a very heavy blow with the blocking of V 4.6.9. Now my 1 years investment is at risk of permanent failure because I cannot even access it now to run it, but linden labs doesn’t care because all they want in my money and if I am not on to pay the tier or heed to them they will simply put me out of commission and kiss me goodbye for all they care. I am not surprised that they are working with Firestorm company too. And I feel greatly sorry for the FS team that they had to block this legendary old technology I am sure it must have been a great pain to do so.

    Honestly if linden labs keeps up this behavior I am sure that they will go bankrupt and I will laugh at them then because what they are doing to us all now is to pull money from our pockets and as much of it as possible is ridiculous and unacceptable. Not only linden labs but all other game companies out there as well.

    Not only that but I know people who have tried to battle LL with law suits because of this, the only reason why LL wins is because they bribe or they have good lawyers but I think they bribe the law because I know in America there is no consumer control which is why these companies can scam you as much as they like and take your money.

    And another good example of LL’s bad behavior and strong attempts in making money off us is as the blog above states “if we do not block our older viewers, Linden Labs will force us to use their auto updater” So as you can see even if you know what they are really up to and they know your too smart for them they will put you in a dither and force you to do things outrageous or quit. This shows how bad of a company Linden Labs is. IF they can’t make money off you they will simply give you the boot. Just like how casinos are today and I see Linden Labs and second life as a big big casino where LL always wins and makes their money off us. They say they are against gambling and that sort of behavior bu yet they do it all the time, ha! I laugh now at this because how stupid Linden Labs is with their lies and daylight robbery.

    Therefore the best solution is to quit SL and cease being a customer to Linden Labs and they will regret their behaviors eventually but it will be too late then. I do know and understand that is is very hard for people to quit because SL is alot of fun but it’s operated by a bad company which is its downfall.

    It is truly a shame that this is how things go, but know it can be changed if people started fighting back and taking this up with Linden Labs or chose to stop paying them and leave, only then would linden labs might learn their lesson or be more reasonable, but as things are there is no consumer control at all in America and this doesn’t surprise a European like me. Here in Europe there is some control and these companies which are like Linden Labs get hammered and they lose and then prices are more fair as they should be and there is no scams going on.

    But in the end it is what it is. There’s nothing we can do about it and Linden Lab’s behavior. I feel very bad for the Firestorm team and i really do feel all your pains in the blocking of the older versions. Thus a great age of the OS’s we grew up with has come to a sad end.

    I give my best wishes and sincere thoughts and support to the FS team. I hope you all do well and keep creating great products.

    Feruda

    April 8, 2016

  • okay so basically the old xp capable viewer doesn’t support changes LL is making on their end

    this is something that’s not their decision, the grid’s getting updated to a new cashier, inventory, and avatar skeleton system that just won’t work on the old client.

    dank

    April 9, 2016

  • LL is purposely doing these changes to push people to upgrade OS. They want to eliminate all old technology so that everyone uses the new technology instead. But why? to make money off us of course.

    It’s a scam is all I will say.

    Feruda

    April 9, 2016

  • Wait… you seriously think Linden Labs is trying to force everyone to update because they get money from the likes of Microsoft, Dell, Apple, HP, etc. every time someone upgrades their OS or buys a new PC?

    HAHHAHHAHAHAHAHA…. oh wait, you’re serous. Let me laugh even harder.

    That’s a conspiracy theory so insane it approaches “faked moon landing” territory.

    Polythene Pam

    April 11, 2016

  • So much talk when Netmarketshare measures Windows XP users with roundabout 10% and Windows 7 users with roundabout 52% – I wonder what sources you have for your speculations. At least not https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0&qpsp=206&qpnp=1&qptimeframe=M

    Ansariel Hiller

    April 9, 2016

  • I know what Linden Labs is doing. While technology is advancing they still only care about money. I am not talking about market shares between the OS’s today I am taking about the users and consumers who are using the OS and want to play SL with them. But they are being forced to spend even more money on upgrading to be able to even play SL.

    SL is a scam and a Casino. LL is going to rip you off LL is going to push you to empty your pockets LL is going to do everything possible to push you to spend because that’s how business is today now. If you refuse to then they will simply put you out and either ban you or put you into a spot to force you to pay or quit. Of course you could hack or find ways around LL to still play on windows XP computer on LL or you can make your own viewer but Linden Labs will shut you down fast and ban you. The don’t give a shit because they jsut want the money from all this.

    This is going to be SL’s downfall and after this block I will not be surprised that Linden Labs would have lost alot more clients and SL get smaller as the weeks go by. I am sure however a good majorit of people may still buy and install windows 7 but after it goes obsolete atleast a year later then people will quit SL because no one will be using Windows 8 and 8.1and windows 10 is expensive.

    I also have a few friends who work with Microsoft and I have to inform and warn you that things will get even worse. I heard that Windows 10 is a band aid fix to 8 and 8.1 the newer OS Microsoft is making after windows 10 will not be free to update. That’s right you will require to purchase a expensive monthly subscription to even update your OS and they may also test this on windows 10 near its final 2 years. So as you can see that OS companies are starting to act like Linden labs as well and i wouldn’t be surprised if they has some hidden alliance between them to make money together.

    In the end its all about the money and Companies will continue to scam consumers and suck their pockets empty from cash. In the end these companies will fail but then they will just make a new product and continue their piracy. Soon no one will be using desktops or laptops anymore people will switch to android or tablets or phones instead. Because no one will pay for updates on windows and no one will fall for these scams, of course stupid people who have too much money may still buy but those people aren’t large in numbers.

    but for those who still want to play online using desktops I believe Linux will be the leading OS then because its free and free to update and is like Firestorm (what I mean by that is its more customization in programing and has more better options) I myself may switch from windows to Linux OS to doge the scam bullet from Windows.

    But after some time maybe windows will see their stupidity and may go back to having a free updates again and then consumers will return. But only time will tell what will really happen so all we can do is tighten our belts and hit the coal bunker and wait for the apocalypse to unfold and then see what happens with these companies.

    Feruda

    April 9, 2016

  • TLDR;

    Maybe if everything is soooo bad and scam and a rip off, why not go and find some other (old) game you can play with Windows XP? Since nobody is going to support an OS that is out of support for years now!

    Ansariel Hiller

    April 9, 2016

  • “The majority of users today are windows xp users”? I’m not sure where you’re getting your figures from Feruda, as i understand it over 50% of Windows users are on Win7, 15% are on Win10, leaving XP and Win8 users to battle it out for third place (source: https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx ), XP’s diminished role in the marketplace looks even more precarious if you combined all the sales of Windows devices over the last year… their number is than a quarter of the amount of Android devices (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems ) and I know plenty of people have resorted to using text chat viewers for a variety of reasons. That said, I do feel for you, more so than I feel for those who resorted to vitriol in the face of the more than reasonable explanation that if the Firestorm team does not block the older viewers in a timely fashion, Linden Lag will inevitably require them to have only one version of the Firestorm viewer in operation at any given time. Yes the arrangement sucks. No, screaming abuse at Jessica and the Firestorm team isn’t the answer. These are volunteers, nobody is paying for their contribution and trashing them for not going even further out of their way to keep the older operating systems in the loop is selfish, irrational and plain bad manners. I’m heartened to see that you at least took the time for a more reasoned approach. I’m on Windows 7. I have a Windows 8 laptop, but it barely performs for anything involving any serious graphics requirements and I barely use it. My Win7 machine is definitely trailing edge and I shudder to think of having to replace it, but I know that day will come eventually. WinXP has enjoyed the longest deployment runs in Microsoft’s history, but they effectively mothballed it when they announced it as EOS 20 months ago and Win7 is scheduled for the same fate at the end of the decade. Might I recommend you try Hatake Kohime’s suggestion of a bootable Linux USB if your hardware can no longer stand the increasingly bloated requirements of the later versions of Windows? I would go for a multiboot myself (eg: Windows and Linux partitions) but in either case you should find that the later versions of Firestorm, Singularity and Catznip work with the same functionality under Linux and you can squeeze a bit more (second) life out out of your computer.

    Kof

    April 21, 2016

  • Geez, that was a whole book! Feruda USED to be part of Trade Winds Pirate Estate. She would damn near daily post tomes like that above. Loves to hear herself talk and, frankly, feel lucky her above post is not in Group Chat. She was muted and banned for life, never met such an arrogant and argumentative person. SL is great…we make concessions as we must, as we are able. If comes day, we can no longer afford it, then it goes away. Meanwhile, enjoy the time you have here. I have been to other grids and they are horrible, even if fairly developed…there are NO people there! I think you do a good job with FS Viewer and I have been using it for years.
    Enjoy your time inworld…I do

    Jessie Kiopak

    June 4, 2016

  • If you don’t want to support LL, Then Quit. If you want to kill SL for everyone else then we will point fingers at you for killing it for the rest of us.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • This is all very well, but a bug you fixed was very useful to me and I’ve stayed on the this version because life without it turned out to be pretty annoying. I refer to what I call The Stripper Bug. This allowed folders to stay in the Worn tab even after you had removed the items. Which meant I could easily put them on quickly after they’d been taken off to either try on other items or, y’know, strip. There is no reason this couldn’t have been an option to keep, is there? A toggle, perhaps? It was easy to get rid of the empty folders when I changed to a different outfit and no longer needed them, but it’s a pain to find an outfit to put back on when those folders are no longer in the Worn tab. And yes, there has been a JIRA for a long time.

    Avedon Andel

    April 9, 2016

  • Haha yes, that bug.
    That *was* actually a bug & we had complaints about it – the Worn tab should only show what you are currently wearing.
    However, many people like yourself actually liked the bug because it was useful in the way you described.
    JIRA issue: http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-11103

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 9, 2016

  • Yeah, I know. But is there really no way to make it an option? I loved that bug as soon as I saw it. I knew it was a bug but I didn’t care, I wanted to keep it forever. It was really easy to make the empty folders disappear so they never got in my way.

    Also, thanks for fixing my posting issue. 🙂

    Avedon Andel

    April 9, 2016

  • I am sure if you ask for a request they can re-create the bug as a optional feature for you and others to toggle the feature on and off.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • A large number of us in SL are very limited in what we can due to disability. will limited resources it limits us. Buy my PC with windows 10 and I will use. But living on SSDI only is huge limiter. you could put yourself out of business since policies discriminate against all of we disabled. I should form ALF Autistic Liberation Front and make some bad publicity

    Kelindra

    April 10, 2016

  • Windows XP Pro 64 bit are running extremely fast and smooth, even without support and updates.
    In order to upgrade Windows, will need to buy a new PC to have an OS running as fast and smooth as this one I have now.
    Of course, in these days – if you are not rich – there is no use to buy a new PC for just to play to a game, even if you love it.
    It’s more useful to spend your money at a good tablet or another useful mobile device for everyday life.
    So, the result for me is that I am out of Second Life.

    SL Resident

    April 11, 2016

  • There are some older viewers available that will still work on XP.

    1) The last release of CtrlAltStudio viewer is based off Firestorm 4.6.9
    http://ctrlaltstudio.com/viewer/releases/1-2-5-43397-alpha
    If you are used to Firestorm, this viewer is pretty much identical apart from it has added Oculus Rift support.

    2) The Linden Lab Obsolete Platforms viewer.
    http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.7.28.300847

    3) Singularity viewer
    http://www.singularityviewer.org/downloads

    4) CoolVL viewer – this one isn’t old and is still regularly updated. The viewer is still built using Visual Studio 2010 and thus will still work on XP for now.
    http://sldev.free.fr/

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 11, 2016

  • Thank you Whirly Fizzle, I will try those viewers.

    SL Resident

    April 12, 2016

  • Hi Whirly Fizzle – thanks for the patience, info.

    This might be outside of your wheelhouse. Could you take a moment and explain how the other viewers are able to still support XP while folding in the post 4.6.9 LL changes despite the change in build environment.

    Are there things in the other TPVs build env that FS can port over?

    The explanation will help make the medicine go down easier.

    Thanks

    BC

    April 21, 2016

  • 1-3 on the list are outdated and do not have any of the changes that came after 4.6.9, which is why those viewers still work on XP.

    It was the tools update that broke compatibility with Windows XP. Visual Studio 2013 is now used to build the viewer. 4.6.9 & other older viewers were built using Visual studio 2010.

    CtrlAltStudio is a fork of the old Firestorm 4.6.9 codebase and is still built on Visual Studio 2010.
    The LL Obsolete platforms viewer is also very outdated now & was the last LL viewer release before the tools update changes which broke compatibility with XP. This viewer won’t ever be getting any updates.
    Singularity viewer release is also very old now and is still built using Visual Studio 2010, it’s currently in a deprecated status on the TPV directory (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_Directory)

    CoolVL viewer is somewhat different. It’s kept up to date with important LL viewer changes but it’s still built using Visual Studio 2010 and thus will work on XP.
    Henri doesn’t merge in all the LL viewer changes, he cherry picks so it’s easier for him to keep building the viewer with VS 2010.

    “Are there things in the other TPVs build env that FS can port over? ”
    No.
    The only reason those other viewers still run on XP is because they are all still using Visual Studio 2010 to build the viewer & have not updated to use the new build system yet.

    I suspect if Singularity viewer has another release, they will have to switch to VS 2013 which will break XP compatibility.
    If CtrlAltStudio does a new release, the same applies.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 21, 2016

  • Thanks again Whirly for the info … more than you actually had to give. It does help me figure out my way forward. It is appreciated.

    BC

    April 22, 2016

  • *YAWNIES*

    On more positive note : I still in luv wiv that husky , sexy Canadian voice (morf ??) , Jess , sweetheart *swooons* x x

    Any plans for more live-chat mass debates in near future , darlin ? ?

    I DOES hope so , an that . It always nice to clock some real nerd-on-nerd action an , actually , be there participatin etc , doesn’t u reckon , babe ? ?

    Er , this blog bout viewers , yeah ? ? Well , Ewa happy to report that Singularitity still deliverin FANTASTICAL frame rates up to , an includin , 9 wiv no annoyin reminders to upgrade nothin , honey ;p

    Clouds , waves , trees , fizzicks , u names it , petal ….. it all there one frame at a time ! !

    SL is gr8 , ain’t it ? ?

    Nex , I gonna try water-coolin graffics card but Sanjeev , my tech-savvy bro , reckons I ain’t gonna gain much performance by dowsin motherboard an that I needs to unplug laptop first , jus to err on side of safety etc … , an that ? ?

    I dunno , Jess . It all SOO confusin , I thinks .

    Good luck wiv ur lil problem , hun *winks*

    Oh , yeah : Before I signs off , gotta say RIP Mr. Howard Marks ’45-’16 . The greatest hash smuggler this , or any other , world will ever know , I spose . His gear opened my brains out , then made me bit paranoid , then agoraphobic an , ultimately , completely laissez-faire , hun x x .

    Red Leb , Blonde Leb , Dark Moroccan , Blonde Moroccan , Paki Black , Turkish *coughs* , Nepalese Temple Balls , Thai Sticks , Colombian ………. u gives Ewa the BESTEST , babes ;p

    SO , ta for that , Mister Man x ♥ x

    Hmmm , JJ Cale ……………

    Anyways , kicked the narcs in ’06 , joined SL in ’07 an fell in luv wiv Jessica Lyin in ’15 , I spose .

    Byeeeeeee E 🙂 x ♥ x ♥ x

    Ewanme

    April 11, 2016

  • I always and only use this version of firestorm,cause all the others give me nothing but problems in crashing,or lagging so bad i cant stand it.I used this one for 5 to 6 year’s now.It was the best one.I dont think it is right for anyone to block it.As long as people are using it and not having any problem with it.It should be up to us.

    evaeva Finistair

    April 11, 2016

  • Evaeva, I don’t know if you’ve even tried the latest 4.7.7 release.
    If you are still having problems crashing &/or having lag issues with it, please can you file a support ticket (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) and we can get details & hopefully help you.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 11, 2016

  • I had no knowledge that this block was coming despite what is being stated here. I’m blocked out now and I’ve read through the instructions for uninstall and install the new one and I would have better luck reading Chinese. There’ is no way I will be able to figure this out. I am not a techie type person so I guess it’s time to accept the fact that I will lose my SL life. I’m sure I’m not the only one that won’t be able to come back. The directions may be clear to some of you but I’ll never be able to do this on my own. I love using SL and I will miss it. What a shame that these updates can’t be made much simpler. Updating from a blocked viewer is way beyond my skill set.

    aprilmarie326

    April 11, 2016

  • April, honestly, don’t worry about doing the clean install.
    Just download the correct version for your system from http://www.firestormviewer.org/downloads/ and run the installer and it should be fine.

    If you are not sure which download you need, please give me your operating system and whether it is 32 or 64bit.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 11, 2016

  • Whirly Fizzle – I have Windows 8.1 and a 64-bit system.

    aprilmarie326

    April 12, 2016

  • Thanks. Here is what you need to do.
    1) Open the Windows Control Panel – http://www.digitalcitizen.life/introducing-windows-81-9-ways-access-control-panel
    2) Go to “Programs & Features”
    3) Find Firestorm viewer in the list, right click Firestorm -> Choose Uninstall.
    4) Download the Windows 64bit version of Firestorm 4.7.7 from http://downloads.firestormviewer.org/windows/Phoenix-FirestormOS-Releasex64-4-7-7-48706_Setup.exe
    5) Run the installer.

    Let me know if you have any problems.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 12, 2016

  • What, if anything, am I going to lose while doing this?

    aprilmarie326

    April 12, 2016

  • I just don’t want to lose inventory, landmarks, groups, or the Linden dollars I have in my account.

    aprilmarie326

    April 12, 2016

  • Inventory, landmarks, groups & L$ are stored on the LL servers, you will not lose any of those 🙂

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 12, 2016

  • I uninstalled the old viewer. When I went to download the new one it asked if I wanted to save or run (under run there was an option for “run and save”). it’s been so long since I downloaded the old viewer that I don’t remember which option I should use. please advise.

    aprilmarie326

    April 13, 2016

  • You can use either.
    Choosing Run is fine. That will just launch the installer once it’s downloaded.
    If you choose save, you will need to manually launch the installer.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 13, 2016

  • WTF, I clicked SAVE and it downloaded but there is no desktop icon to open it it.

    aprilmarie326

    April 13, 2016

  • I decided to try to uninstall the new viewer and reinstall and it’s not even there. This such a bunch of bullshut. How the hell do I download it and actually get a damn icon on my desktop to open it so I can see if I can log in?

    aprilmarie326

    April 13, 2016

  • There will not be a desktop icon until you install the viewer.
    The installer will be saved wherever you have your web browser set to save downloads.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 13, 2016

  • Ok, I think it’s best if you do it this way:
    1) Download the installer: http://downloads.firestormviewer.org/windows/Phoenix-FirestormOS-Releasex64-4-7-7-48706_Setup.exe
    2) When given the option to Run or Save, choose Run.
    3) Once the download has finished, the installer will automatically run.
    4) Once the viewer is installed, you should have a desktop icon as usual.

    Does this work for you?

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 13, 2016

  • yes

    amyleenirvana

    April 11, 2016

  • Great , my graphics card on my laptop , is incompatible with windows ten and the new version of firestorm so i was forced to use this one , because fire storm is easier for me to do combat . now i cannot use firestorm at all . .. this is pretty lame . you cannot force an update on people that cannot update unless you give them material they can use …

    Ember

    April 11, 2016

  • Ember, if you are on a Windows 10 system with older Intel graphics and Firestorm 4.7.7 is telling you it cannot run because your graphics drivers are out of date, install the *32bit* version of 4.7.7 and apply the Intel fix as instructed here: http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_intel_fix_32bit

    If that doesn’t help, please file a JIRA issue (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) and support will help you.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 11, 2016

  • Just so you know or think about it, none of the updates since 4.6.9 have worked on my desktop PC. It’s says my graphics are not up for it, and I can’t afford to upgrade or buy a new PC. I’ve gone back to the SL viewer which does still work, but sadly I miss Firestorm.

    Sandicat McMaster

    April 11, 2016

  • Sandicat, if you are on a Windows 10 system with older Intel graphics and Firestorm 4.7.7 is telling you it cannot run because your graphics drivers are out of date, install the *32bit* version of 4.7.7 and apply the Intel fix as instructed here: http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_intel_fix_32bit

    If that doesn’t help, please file a JIRA issue (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) and support will help you.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 11, 2016

  • so did you actually fix all the huge glaring bugs around even rlv attached item randomly detaching which forced me back to an older version some updates back? i certainly hope so, because now i have no choice…

    sable

    April 11, 2016

  • Hard to say because I don’t know which attachment bug you were/are suffering from.
    If the attachments were randomly falling off when changing regions and you don’t suffer that bug on 4.6.9, then yes, that should be fixed. It was fixed on 4.7.5 actually, if it was this bug: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-6925
    That bug only happened on AIS3 enabled viewers and 4.6.9 doesn’t have AIS3.
    That bug is now fixed.
    There are other bugs with attachments getting ghosted on teleport (visible to YOU but invisible to observers) but 4.6.9 suffers from that bug too, as does every other viewer – that one will need a server side fix.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 11, 2016

  • yes, it was the one which would happen when i teleported

    sable

    April 11, 2016

  • Sim Jessica Lyon você esta correta em todas suas palavras mas peço o favor de se preocupar com a tradução nas novas versões do Firestorm nas mesmas línguas que se preocupou em enviar este seu texto explicativo. Infelizmente nem todos nós temos a força da linguagem para localizar e identificar os devidos ajustes nos menus deste software e muitas vezes a solução dos novos problemas chegam com muito atraso devido a falta de um idioma semelhante. Pense da mesma forma que achou necessária a tradução em várias línguas de seu explicativo texto. Obrigada por tudo que tem feito mas por favor, ajude ao Firestorm chegar mais perto de nós e consequentemente poder ir muito mais longe. Atenciosamente, Elisabeth Melina

    Elisa

    April 11, 2016

  • *Translation of above*

    Yes Jessica Lyon you are correct in all your words but I ask you please to care about translating the new versions of Firestorm in the same languages that bothered to forward your explanation. Unfortunately not all of us have the power of language to locate and identify the necessary adjustments in the menus of this software and often the solution of new problems arrive very late due to lack of a similar language. Think the same way as found necessary translation into several languages your explanatory text. Thank you for all you have done but please help the Firestorm get closer to us and therefore be able to go much further. Sincerely, Elisabeth Melina.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 11, 2016

  • How do we know if we have to do the 32bit or the 64bit download? I have a mac and apparently need to do a clean install from the sound of it….

    Ash

    April 12, 2016

  • Ash, if you do not create mesh, you can easily install the 64 bit version on Mac. All Macs that can go on Second Life are 64 bit.

    Bluezy Bleac

    April 12, 2016

  • I don’t create mesh so I downloaded the newest version in 64bit and now when I run the installer, the app won’t open. Well, it will but it’s a blank white screen. It never loads. I’m running on Mac 10.9 so I figured I should have been okay but I guess not?

    Ash

    April 12, 2016

  • Hmm you should be okay on Mac 10.9.
    Is Gatekeeper blocking the viewer from running? See https://hatakekohime.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/whitelist-in-gatekeeper.jpg
    If you’re still having problems, try the 32 bit version of 4.7.7 for now and file a JIRA issue (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) so we can investigate what’s going wrong with the 64bit version.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 12, 2016

  • Hello i cannot more login in because 4.6.9 version is blocked.
    I not make backup before. How can i make???
    IF i update version …i lose all my setting and data?
    PLEASE HELP ME !!!!

    kassandra9999

    April 12, 2016

  • Kassandra, presuming you are Windows, just uninstall 4.6.9 the usual way through Windows add/remove programs, then run the 4.7.7 installer and all your settings will be kept.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 12, 2016

  • yes i have Windows. Ok thank you for answer me. I will try

    kassandra9999

    April 12, 2016

  • Let me know if you have any problems.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 12, 2016

  • I updated firestorm to try to get back in and it wont work.Uninstalled it and tried still wont work.All it dose is a crash report before I even get to the login screen.Idk what else to do.

    Ant

    April 12, 2016

  • Ant, I can only guess what’s happening without more details.
    Taking a wild guess – do you happen to be running Windows 8? I mean Windows 8 NOT Windows 8.1.
    Some systems with older intel graphics on Windows 8 (NOT Windows 8.1) may have problems running later versions of Firestorm (usually a viewer crash when the viewer is launched just after you see “Initializing VFS…”).
    If this is the case, then updating to Windows 8.1 will fix the problem.
    If you need further help, then please file a JIRA issue (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) so we can get more information. Whatever is wrong should be fixable.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 12, 2016

  • Yeah I am running 8 and not 8.1 but,idk if I can switch to just 8.1,or if it will even download with my internet.What is funny is though I was using 64 bit viewer,then when I downloaded the 32 bit last night it works but,when I am using it even with graphics,sounds etc lowered to heck and back my internet still drains.

    Ant

    April 12, 2016

  • Ok so the 32 bit is working okay? No crash on launch?
    If you can’t update to Windows 8.1, you will need to stay on the 32bit version.
    Do you have Intel graphics?
    In the top menu bar of the viewer, go to Help -> About Firestorm, click the “Copy to clipboard” button & paste all your system information in a comment here.

    Do you have a really slow connection & you need some tips for how to set the viewer to use as little bandwidth as possible?

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 12, 2016

  • Did you get my reply?

    Ant

    April 12, 2016

  • Yes, replied to you above 🙂

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 12, 2016

  • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3330 CPU @ 3.00GHz (2994.18 MHz)
    Memory: 8067 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows 8 64-bit (Build 9200)
    Graphics Card Vendor: Intel
    Graphics Card: Intel(R) HD Graphics 2500

    Also yeah I have a slow connection but,that isn’t the problem.Problem is that I get 250MB download allowance and this IS a computers internet not a phones.I swear I lowered everything possible to derender & black list,shadowing and texturing,bandwidth I set down to 50 kbps.Yet even with all that set my daily allowance is still going down to much! 🙁 I am lost and really stressing out at this point.

    Ant

    April 12, 2016

  • Thanks.
    With the Intel HD Graphics 2500 on Windows 8, you’ll need to stick to the 32bit version of Firestorm. The 64bit will crash during benchmarking.
    If you update to Windows 8.1 in the future, 64bit viewer versions will run just fine.

    Ugh 250MB is pretty low, it wont take long to use that up on Second Life.
    Lowering the Maximum bandwidth setting wont help that much really – that setting only affects UDP data. Mesh & textures & avatar baked textures and inventory are now always fetched over HTTP with no UDP fallback.
    There are a couple of debug settings you can change to slow down the mesh & texture fetching over HTTP which may help.

    * Activate the Advanced menu in the top menu bar with CTRL+ALT+D
    * Advanced -> Show Debug Settings.
    * Mesh2MaxConcurrentRequests – lower this to 4, or even 2 (Default is 8).
    * TextureFetchConcurrency – lower this to 4 or even 2 (Default is 0, which actually is 8, but don’t worry about why it shows as 0).

    If your data allowance improves in the future, you must change these settings back to default.

    Another setting change that may help in your case is to disable Pipelining.
    This is the debug setting HttpPipelining, set this to FALSE.
    Remember to set this back to TRUE if your data allowance improves – Pipelining will give you much faster texture & mesh fetch times.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 13, 2016

  • Okay I set everything as you said,can’t tell if it’s working or not but will stick with it none the less.It is really odd though,before the block on the older viewer it didn’t eat as much data so,i’m always woundering why that was so and such.If I could get a better internet I would but,cant seem to find anything better then this in my area.Sorry for the life story lol.Thank’s so much for helping me 🙂

    Ant

    April 13, 2016

  • It would have been nice to have a bit of warning so back ups could be performed!!

    heavenlei

    April 12, 2016

  • There has been plenty of warning about the 4.6.9 block on earlier blog posts and the MOTD.
    Can you suggest any better way to let people know a few weeks in advance when an older version is going to be blocked?

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 12, 2016

  • Maybe a message at login with a date that it will be blocked. I only recall seeing SL14 needing scripters and other community messages recently when I’ve logged in.

    What does MOTD mean?

    heavenlei

    April 12, 2016

  • MOTD = Motto of the day.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 12, 2016

  • Hey Guys, I have an issue. I have never made a backup of my personal settings and now I cant do it because the viewer is blocked. What can I still do in order I dont loose my chat logs and other data when installing the latest version of firestorm?
    Thanks in advance.
    Mano

    Mano

    April 12, 2016

  • FYI : I run FS on Windows 7

    Mano

    April 12, 2016

  • Mano, if you just uninstall the old version of Firestorm the usual way through Windows add/remove programs and then run the 4.7.7 installer, all your settings and chat logs will remain.
    You don’t *have* to do a clean install.
    Let me know if you have any problems after doing that.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 12, 2016

  • What about mac os x el captain 10.11.4 does it not work? Im still knew to all this, so not 100% sure what to do.

    sophiaarcilalee

    April 12, 2016

  • You should have no problems on El Captain 10.11.4. You will be fine choosing the Mac 64bit download of 4.7.7.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 12, 2016

  • So I now have to upgrade my mac to the current software if i want to use firestorm. Thtas great it needs an update.
    Now that I have updated and my old slow mac is now an old incredibly slow mac, I am off to the apple store to buy a brand new laptop.
    Great new mac is awesome fast and so many new toys.

    Oh wait, I can no longer connect to the internet, maybe I ran out of money because the new mac is a mortgage payment.
    So, I stole some $$$ from the monthly hydro budget hoping to be able to make it all work.
    Oh now what, the hydro’s off. no internet, even though I have paid that bill.
    Ok, so I don’t need to eat this month, i’ll use that to pay the hydro.

    Vicous circle…..
    Bad decision firestorm… while I can’t make you feel peoples pain by your actions because I can’t hurt you monitarily, I can just simply say goodbye.
    It’s been fun.
    Unless I take to collection from genorus people on SL to help offset the cost to play SL now i wont be playing SL. Oh wait, I can’t even log in to ask for donations……
    What else is there to say. I hope you can keep your company running, but do remeber how many people donated millions of linden to help you all out. Maybe next time they won’t be there, cause thay can’t log in anymore

    Mark

    April 13, 2016

  • There are some older viewers available that will still work on Mac 10.6.

    1) The last but one release of CtrlAltStudio viewer , 1.2.2 Alpha.
    http://ctrlaltstudio.com/viewer
    If you are used to Firestorm, this viewer is pretty much identical apart from it has added Oculus Rift support.

    2) The Linden Lab Obsolete Platforms viewer.
    http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.7.28.300847

    3) Singularity viewer
    http://www.singularityviewer.org/downloads

    4) CoolVL viewer – this one isn’t old and is still regularly updated. I *think* this will still run on 10.6, you’ll need to try it to be sure.
    http://sldev.free.fr/

    There is also the option of setting up your Mac to dual boot with Linux, which is free: http://linuxnewbieguide.org/?p=1819

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 13, 2016

  • You could probably get a laptop with the same or better specs as the latest Macbook for half the price if you are willing to part with your Apple loyalty. Macs are simply overpriced PC’s with Apple’s proprietary OS on top of it. If you’re tight for money, your money would be better spent on a non Apple product.

    Yay

    April 13, 2016

  • Some of the comments here – Geeze – Particularly by win XP users…

    I get that there are people who have old computers that cant run anything more than XP, but if you are running XP, you also deserve a BIG clip across the head because even Microsoft don’t support XP anymore. There are no security updates for the OS. Which effectively means you are helping Cyber Crooks grow their Botnets, since you are a sitting duck waiting to be hacked.

    Hardware vendors cant be expected to continue support for end of life operating systems either (I am talking about GFX drivers).

    To even upgrade to a PC that can run Win 7 wont cost a fortune. You don’t need a state of the art PC to run SL. Stop Blaming LL. Stop Blaming the firestorm team. Upgrade your hardware.

    If you are one of these people who have dodged using a newer version of the viewer because of a bug and you haven’t reported it (assuming its not in JIRA), you also deserve a clip across the head – hope its a lesson learned for you.

    Yay

    April 13, 2016

  • You don’t have a clue as to what you’re talking about. You sound like an idiot that doesn’t know anything about computers. You should take your own advice and clip your own self in the head. I have both an XP computer and a Windows 7 computer as well as a Windows 10 computer. I’ve never had a reason to update or upgrade any of them. Most programs can install on XP and offer support for XP. I also still get XP updates from microsoft. They still support XP, just not publicly.

    Jasonwoods

    April 14, 2016

  • Perhaps someone should link you to all the exploits that Windows XP cannot patch up because it doesn’t support the software with the patches. I dunno man, you know anyone who patches XP exploits unofficially, and do you employ them? Otherwise what has been said to you is pretty accurate.

    DoomRater

    April 14, 2016

  • Jason…. Perhaps you cannot read:

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/WindowsForBusiness/end-of-xp-support

    Quote:

    “After 12 years, support for Windows XP ended April 8, 2014. There will be no more security updates or technical support for the Windows XP operating system. ”

    No more security updates. Read again, I’ll spell it out slowly “no more security updates” — hence running it is a risk.

    Yes programs install, in many cases. But you are using an OS that no longer receives security updates from microsoft (unless you are a government department that has paid a fortune for extended support, those individuals get support and updates, not home users).

    Of course, what would I know? I’m only a sys admin and software engineer. never been near a computer before.

    yay

    April 15, 2016

  • Ever heard of Zero-day Virus? It’s went Windows XP no longer gets anymore patches to fix there exploits or stuff that may still be lingering.

    “A zero-day (also known as zero-hour or 0-day) vulnerability is an undisclosed computer-software vulnerability that hackers can exploit to adversely affect computer programs, data, additional computers or a network.[1] It is known as a “zero-day” because once the flaw becomes known, the software’s author has zero days in which to plan and advise any mitigation against its exploitation (for example, by advising workarounds or by issuing patches)”

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • The release you blocked was the only one which could work with Nvidia Geforce 610M, the following releases did not recognize the presence of last drivers of this card.

    Now, i cant use this card to rendering graphics and CPU Works excesively. I hope you will implement a solution.

    Blocking Versions is not a good policy.

    vmax

    April 13, 2016

  • Is this a Windows 10 system?
    4.7.7 *should* run okay on the Geforce 610M card, it’s supported on Windows 10 (http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3710/~/which-nvidia-gpus-are-supported-in-windows-10%3F).

    If it is the 64bit version of 4.7.7 which is causing problems, can you try running the 32bit version.
    If that still doesn’t work, can you apply the “intel fix” on this page: http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_intel_fix_32bit
    This fix is just a replacement .exe with the Windows 10 manifest removed.

    Even if the 32bit+intel fix works, please can you file a JIRA issue (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) so we can get your full system details & viewer logs & see what’s going wrong.

    Thanks!

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 13, 2016

  • QUERO O MEU JOGO FUNCIONANDO NOVAMENTE, POIS NAO CONSIGO ACESSAR !

    noemi

    April 13, 2016

  • *Translation*

    I WANT MY RUNNING GAME AGAIN BECAUSE I CAN NOT ACCESS!

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 14, 2016

  • Fuck sake just update 4.6.9 so we can keep the same settings and all that stuff. There’s no reason that you should be forcing so many people upon the new settings you guys have thrown into the recent updates. They are awful and makes it nearly impossible to play second life.

    Devin

    April 14, 2016

  • I’m not really sure what you mean…
    4.7.7 is essentially an updated version of 4.6.9 – just very updated because there have been 4 releases after 4.6.9.
    There is a settings backup feature in 4.6.9 and later versions so you can backup your settings any time to keep them safe – see http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/backup_settings
    You can restore those settings to Firestorm 4.7.7 with one click.

    Also if you just run the 4.7.7 installer to update from 4.6.9, all your old settings will be kept anyway.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 14, 2016

  • Yes a Windows 10 SO. I tried to install 32b release, and applied the intel-fix, Now it can run if i execute it as Administrator and NVIDIA driver si recognized and used . But 64b versión continues not running .

    I will try to register a Jira issue, because this happens since Releasex64-4-7-3-47323 and had to use an old version.

    vmax

    April 14, 2016

  • Ok good, at least the 32bit version is working okay for now.
    Yes, please file that JIRA issue so we can investigate why the 64bit version isn’t working for you.
    Thanks!

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 14, 2016

  • I see your JIRA issue Vmax. Thank you 😉

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 14, 2016

  • I picked this version because it worked as for newer versions I keep getting something about the graphics drivers need to be upgraded and they don’t, in other words 4.6.9 was the only firestorm version I could use, now that you blocked it I can never use this viewer again THANKS FOR NOTHING!!!!!

    George

    April 15, 2016

  • And I like firestorm over the others too…

    George

    April 15, 2016

  • George, if you on a Windows 10 system with older Intel graphics and Firestorm 4.7.7 is telling you it cannot run because your graphics drivers are out of date, install the *32bit* version of 4.7.7 and apply the Intel fix as instructed here: http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_intel_fix_32bit

    If that doesn’t help, please file a JIRA issue (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) and support will help you.
    As long as you are not on Win XP or Mac 10.6, you will be able to run Firestorm 4.7.7.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 15, 2016

  • A good solution for sure, just try the other viewers pointed here.
    .

    zzpearlbottom

    April 15, 2016

  • I’m not going to talk about how old XP is now – it really doesn’t seem all that long since I was installing WIN 3.11 – I’m going to talk about how change is eventually forced on all of us. The proprietary software that Linden Lab uses, the engines, the Vivox speech parts, the inventory backbones, none of their people want to code for XP, Linden Lab’s engineers don’t want to code for it. Backwards compatability gets harder and harder over time. The Firestorm Viewer team stuck it out as long as they could. It’s not like they said Fuck all the XP users. Cut them some slack here. Bitch at Linden Lab or Microsoft, or Intel. And if you are still using XP, I hope to hell you don’t use it to bank or shop.

    David

    April 16, 2016

  • Firestorm is not working on windows 10. I had it working fine but now i get a message saying my drivers are out of date – what they’re not. So contacting to report this error.

    Sayuri

    April 16, 2016

  • Sayuri, if you are on a Windows 10 system with older Intel graphics which are listed as a “No” for Windows 10 support on this list, http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/graphics-drivers/000005526.html, and Firestorm 4.7.7 is telling you it cannot run because your graphics drivers are out of date, install the *32bit* version of 4.7.7 and apply the Intel fix as instructed here: http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_intel_fix_32bit

    If that doesn’t help, please file a JIRA issue (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) and support will help you.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 16, 2016

  • Working now, thank you very much for the reply! <3

    Sayuri

    May 9, 2016

  • Great!
    Thanks for letting me know.

    Whirly Fizzle

    May 10, 2016

  • Unblock it.

    Spanner Bumper

    April 16, 2016

  • Sorry, we cannot do that.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 16, 2016

  • Get lost kid!

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • Apparently I missed any message that we were getting blocked. I did everything in the instructions and I absolutely can not stay inworld unless I’m standing alone. ((I have gotten help from inworld friends, but even on the lowest settings and whatnot it only let’s me stay in crowded areas a few minutes later before black screening).

    I realize that you are saying it’s not your fault and it’s LL’s. I also understand we don’t have to use FS. However, it’s always been the best viewer for me. This new one kills my GC and it’s pretty pointless to even try to log in if I’m just going to black screen.

    The one thing in the comments section that I do think people have to be sensitive to is that not a lot of people who are regular users of SL have a ton of money to just go out and buy new computers or graphic cards. It’s so wrong to give anyone that answer as a solution.

    I’m fine leaving SL, but it really is angering when you invest money, no matter how much, in to a game and EVERY update makes it worse. I hope FS is reporting what a mess LL has caused.

    BellaAmante resident

    April 18, 2016

  • Bella, please can you file a JIRA issue (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) so we can get your system information & viewer logs & see what’s going wrong.
    Thanks!

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 19, 2016

  • So… where do I start?

    People running XP are a problem. As has been mentioned, XP users are the biggest source of botnet nodes. Sure, many old machines can’t run Vista+ – but if your XP machine is fast enough to run SL, you’ll do great with Mint Linux – which IS a supported OS in the latest firestorm. You’ll also be shrinking the botnet you’re a member of, which is also nice for the rest of us.

    To those with older software that won’t run on current operating systems, I understand. I would advise you to look up ‘Virtual Machines’ – a way to run a copy of Windows XP etc as an application on a modern operating system, while preventing that XP install from accessing the internet.

    Finally, to those who mention the money you ‘invest’ in second life. You’re not. SL isn’t an investment, it’s closer to a ponzi scheme. That said, if you don’t mind throwing away some money; it’s a fun and diverting game and an enjoyable way to meet different people. But don’t ever treat it as anything more serious, or you will continue to be disappointed on days like today.

    If you decide to abandon SL after this… can I recommend some alternatives? Minecraft will still work on many older software releases, and is again great on Mint linux. You could also visit your local library for a book rental, or perhaps scrounge an old bicycle and go out to see the world?

    In any case, enjoy – and thank you for your ..refreshing comments.

    Regards,
    A PowerPC User.

    Alta Vista

    April 19, 2016

  • Im on Windows 10 and have no issues here. Looks all good to me. Those who don’t like change should stick with Solitaire.

    Chance Booth555

    April 27, 2016

  • windows xp is a 14 year old operating system that has long since not been supported by microsoft and has some key security vulnerabilities that have since been discovered so honestly if you’re still using it you’re pretty dumb

    get a new computer

    sandwich

    April 19, 2016

  • Actively blocking a version of your software in a public distribution like this is asinine. I’m sorry, but you deserve all the hate you are getting. This is not an enterprise environment where you control all the machines on the network and are responsible for them. These are are other people’s computers. If you want to stop downloads and support that is fine, but you have no right to disable software already downloaded and distributed to machines you don’t own.

    And before you point at some forgotten line in a EULA or license agreement, many localities require you to open a two-way dialogue with the user, otherwise you run into contract self-help legal issues. The only thing keeping you from getting a lawsuit is you can’t really prove damages for free software.

    You’ve still done wrong though, and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

    Anon

    April 19, 2016

  • What part of “this is required by Linden Labs” do you not understand?

    Lee

    April 20, 2016

  • Lee,

    There’s nothing that LL requires, only an ambiguous note that some functionality might not work.

    Perhaps next time before you start screaming at people you should work on your own reading comprehension.

    Anon

    April 22, 2016

  • Actually Lee is right Anon. Suggest you read the third and fourth points in the OP again, they do speak as to what Linden Lag expects, not just of the Firestorm team but of all third party developers.

    It could be worse you know. If Firestorm does not block versions in a timely manner, you could very well find yourself railing against forced updates a lot sooner than 12 months after the release of a particular version of Firestorm.

    Kof

    April 23, 2016

  • hey Whirly ,
    how are you ?
    im having another problem.
    this new update version ,crash too much for me .. i didnt have such problem with older version ? can you tell me some solution ..

    dev08

    April 22, 2016

  • Heya Dev,

    I’m afraid I have no idea without seeing your viewer logs after a crash – it could be caused by lots of different things.
    Can you file a JIRA issue (see http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) and provide your full system information & log files (that wiki page tells you how) and I’ll take a look.
    Thanks!

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 22, 2016

  • hey Whirly
    which file are the log files ?
    HP pavilion i5 2nd generation intel core processor ,with 4 gb ram, Radeon Graphics ,Intel(R) HD Graphics 3000, Display Memory: 3034 MB,Dedicated Memory: 1012 MB, Shared Memory: 2021 MB
    update windows 10…
    is its a problem with graphics ?

    dev08

    April 22, 2016

  • This page on the wiki tells you where to fix your logs: http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira#how_to_give_us_your_logs

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 23, 2016

  • well i locate the log files but the size is big . on compressing to Zip it is still 47.6 mbs ..
    from where to attach these files ? do i need to send them by Email ? because i dont see “more action” around comment box .

    dev08

    April 23, 2016

  • Make sure you only zipped up the logs folder, not the whole Firstorm folder.
    If the log folder size really is that big, I can raise the JIRA attachment size limit so you can attach it – JIRA normally has a 10MB attachment limit.
    I don’t actually see a JIRA issue from you yet but maybe you used a different name. If you did already file a JIRA issue, can you give me the JIRA number.
    The “More Actions” button is at the top of the JIRA issue: http://prnt.sc/aw2v33
    The menu options may look slightly different for you because Im logged in on an admin account on that image.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 23, 2016

  • Dev, you can also email me your logs if you want.
    whirly.fizzle@phoenixviewer.com

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 23, 2016

  • Since this was the last version of FS to work on Win XP, it should’ve been pinned as exactly that, left alone, and instead blocked one of the many newer versions still active if necessary. There’s been no changed functionality on LL’s end to prevent that, and users that are actually forced to use XP (for any number of valid reasons) would not have been cast out into the rain. Poor choice, FS team.. poor choice.

    Dana

    April 24, 2016

  • Using an operating system that no longer receives security updates from microsoft = a poor choice.

    Why should the firestorm team have to keep supporting an operating system that even Microsoft themselves no longer support? Time to upgrade your OS. A legit copy of Win 7 is not expensive if you know where to look.

    Good Choice

    April 26, 2016

  • i am still on Windows XP because those genius of Microsoft didn’t judge just a bit necessary to propose a free migration from XP to a more recent version that my computer may handle…and now i no more can use Firestorm because of that…do you have a contract with Microsoft,or something like that?pfffttt…nevermind..so 1) i don’t plan to buy a licence for a new system,and 2)…or the latest Firestorm versions get revisited for they can run on XP…or i will keep using my other viewers,it isn’t a problem

    Lydua Storm

    April 24, 2016

  • You are also using an operating system that no longer receives security updates from Microsoft. You are at a much higher risk of having your machine compromised by hackers because of this – doesn’t that trouble you at all?

    Microsoft offer a free upgrade from 7 to 10. They cant be expected to backtrack and offer a free upgrade path for all previous versions of windows. If your machine isn’t able to cope with Win 7 or 10, I hate to say this, but you might want to seriously consider a hardware upgrade. PC Hardware is not expensive anymore and you don’t need a supercomputer to run SL.

    Bad

    April 26, 2016

  • Ever heard of Zero Day?

    A zero-day (also known as zero-hour or 0-day) vulnerability is an undisclosed computer-software vulnerability that hackers can exploit to adversely affect computer programs, data, additional computers or a network.[1] It is known as a “zero-day” because once the flaw becomes known, the software’s author has zero days in which to plan and advise any mitigation against its exploitation (for example, by advising workarounds or by issuing patches)

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • All I use my XP machine for is Second Life, which is a very good use for an old machine. My old Linden lab viewer I downloaded in 2013 still works now, today, under XP! It is not “blocked”. I tried it yesterday and the day before…it never got upgraded….but guess what it still works. Why dont you let things die naturally instead of stomping them out. There are a lot of problems with using windows 10 and having drivers that work and so forth. Similar things also occurred in the past whenever a new operating system came out . Are we doomed to repeat our actions of fixing crap that doesnt quite work over and over and over?….stop! Use all those millions of machines that actually work properly and save them from the landfills. All the comments about how the XP machines are a menace and dangerous and dont work are simply wrong and are made by non XP users who could not maintain their systems. Clearly the outcry about the block is not from XP users who are unhappy with XP. The XP users want to continue using it, because it does what they want. Commenters who are not using XP are not relevant to the discussion because they are not using XP, they dont know how well it is working for the XP users and are just saying the XP users are stupid. Well the XP users have solved their problems and they dont like solving the same problems again. Be aware that every operating system that ever came out claimed to be the solution for the problems with the old one, and guess what there were always more problems. Basically you are kicking people off that have good working systems with no problems and changing them into people that have problems and dont yet know how to solve their problems with their new systems. They might have to upgrade someday anyway if they want to continue and if things advance as planned, but why not let it reach that point rather than having a “block”. Lectures about considering a hardware upgrade..about how I should worry about being hacked are not relevant to me …and probably others too …..I have other machines for crying out loud…ones that are good for other stuff. The fact is SL, as it is now, does not really need a state of the art machine, unless you force it to…by blocking. The XP users know that and that is why they are upset.

    Spanner Bumper

    April 26, 2016

  • let me fix it for you:
    “”Clearly the outcry is just a vocal minority that wishes the world would move at their speed.””
    Luckily that isn’t the case, the world goes on even if a thousand people will cry for the loss of their XP machine. Let’s grab the pitchforks and fight off the conversion from steam power to internal combustion engines.

    Someone that used to help

    May 2, 2016

  • I hope and wish the Hackers infects your dumb windows xp machines with the Zero Day. Let the XP Machines be infected, They cannot manually patch the exploits themselves.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • Just simply update your OS folks!! Microsoft has already ended support for Windows XP ended April 8th, 2014! over two years ago, yes it will work but its way more vulnerable, and why would anyone use it! Computers are not expensive now days, (if you don’t use an Apple that is) and anyone can obtain one with at least Windows 7, to which, if it has the hardware, can be updated to Windows 10 for FREE!! There is no excuses! Sorry to say and sad but true!

    Aly

    April 28, 2016

  • Um no, sorry but you’re quite wrong on something here: Computers are indeed, expensive. You may be able to drop $800 (minimum for a laptop decent enough to run Second Life, well below decent for a desktop) on a computer but guess what? Not everyone can.

    Before anyone tries to chime in with a lower cost: Do not bother. Lower cost than what I used as an example uses Integrated Graphics (no, not a mobile card, the GPU and CPU are the same piece) which still do not hold a candle to having a dedicated graphics card, be that a Mobile card (for laptops) or not (PCs).

    Operating system? If you’re a die hard Windows user and want to ‘upgrade’ from XP, it is not going to be cheap. Good luck finding a legal, retail copy of Windows 7 Professional (assuming you want something that actually, you know, works – no Windows 8/8.1 users, your OS is a POS and was never designed around real computers, sit down), Microsoft doesn’t sell them anymore.

    Windows 10? It was NOT ready for release. Since release, they have had to push hotfixes and such for things that should NEVER have been issues if they’d taken their time.

    Heaven forbid you try and use it with older hardware.

    Dark Wolf

    May 2, 2016

  • Oh, forgot to put this in above: That ‘free’ upgrade to Windows 10? Valid only for a year after the release date.

    Dark Wolf

    May 2, 2016

  • One of the dumbest things anyone on here EVER tries to do is put SL (or any other graphics intensive software) on a laptop! People, THAT IS NOT WHAT LAPTOPS ARE FOR! Laptops are for portable productivity, NOT gaming. If you want to game, YOU GET A DESKTOP. Stop trying to run SL on laptops and you won’t have these gripes, or if you want a laptop anyway….YES, you are going to pay a PREMIUM for one with that kind of horsepower.

    Lee McKay

    June 4, 2016

  • It’s just great coming to read comments here, where so many entitled individuals can only insult and demand.
    Do yourself (and everyone else) a favor, find something better than Firestorm for your needs. Have fun, and good luck, obviously you’ll need it, otherwise you wouldn’t be here wasting everyone’s time complaining about things that you’ve been warned about for years.

    Someone that used to help

    May 2, 2016

  • Why not just join the modern world and use an auto updater ? Your current system is terrible and leads to more trouble than its worth in the long run. You’ll miss out making money from spamming people with ads when they’re forced to visit your site but I don’t care about that. It’ll cut down on the amount of comments you have and free up your snarky devs from posting snarky comments and actually work on fixing bugs. Or adding more bloat code that isn’t needed.

    justme

    May 3, 2016

  • How can old XP computers even render anything in today’s SL? I didn’t think anyone trying to run anything in 3D would have any success with hardware that old. I am curious, I am not trying to troll, really. I have constantly updated my computer over the years to accommodate newer tech. SL and Opensim have done the same, adding shaders and materials, and all that great 3D stuff. What kind of FPS do you get? Do you end up turning all the settings off?

    Brayla Sana

    May 3, 2016

  • This is the thing: Firestorm is more popular than the linden viewer. So the lindens get up all in Firestorm’s grill because any attempt to implement anything new in SL has to be supported in Firestorm in order for users to get behind it. Mesh was not widely adopted until Firestorm supported it. Basically LL has Firestorm by the balls, making them block viewers, even though LL do not always block their old viewers. So all of you are mad at the wrong people. Go complain at LL.

    Brayla Sana

    May 3, 2016

  • OK people, this more geared towards those with rubbish machines and who either can’t upgrade or just won’t upgrade.

    This is my current SL machine:
    CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 630 Processor (2799.95 MHz)
    Memory: 3951 MB
    OS Version: Linux 3.19.0-32-generic #37~14.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 22 09:41:40 UTC 2015 x86_64
    Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 560 Ti/PCIe/SSE2

    It kinda ran ok on xp, it struggled on windows 7, and sl on either operating system on this comp was barely usable at best, was lucky to get about 10fps to 15fps with everything off and in a prety empty sim.

    After windows went down on me and wouldn’t let me re-install with my legit serial number, I thought sod it, give linux mint one last try, nothing to loose.

    Yes it was a major learning curve, but Linux Mint I got looking almost identicle to a windows xp/7 fusion, it is super fast, and my sl now runs smoothly at 20fps to 50fps constantly, and best of all never crashes.

    And you can also buy a super cheap £10 hdd docking station, and a super cheap ssd drive to slot into it, only need a 64gb / 128gb drive, and you can run linux mint from it without even touching your internal drive, so you can keep your windows xp for your normal daily stuff, then restart comp,. hit F8 to get boot menu as it loading up, select your ssd drive and viola Linux mint and your sl.

    And to make sure the linux you want actually works on your laptop/comp, put a live version on cd/dvd and boot up with it and it will let you see if it has drivers for everything in your system.

    So you’re not stuck, no need to send such horrible distasteful vile messages here to the admin of this awesome viewer, who I may add are not even charging for all their hard work.

    Have a Nice Day.

    xXsnookumsXx

    May 4, 2016

  • One of my PC’s is
    Running Xubuntu on
    CPU: P4 2.8GHz
    Memmory: 2GB
    VGA : NVIDIA GForce FX5200 128RAM (less than 96MB available for SL)

    No fancy stuff enabled but it does the job that i need it to do (scripting) and it’s doing it fine.
    Of course if you want to have a super duper cyber bs pixelsex experience this is not the PC configuration you would use. 😉

    Yo

    May 9, 2016

  • OK! Many thanks for the comment; as a result I have loaded Linux Mint into a USB drive and have been using the Linux Firestorm with some success on an XP machine. Also I found that “Xtra-PC”, a preloaded USB available for around $25, made it easy for a Linux newbie to set up what appears to be Lubuntu Linux (I guess) relatively automatically and Firestorm also works under that system.

    Spanner Bumper

    May 19, 2016

  • As noted in some of the comments above – LL will be making changes soon that will break older viewers.
    Today LL announced the date for one of these changes – the move over to TLS 1.2 for the cashier will happen on June 15, 2016.
    Firestorm 4.7.7 supports TLS 1.2. Earlier versions of Firestorm do not.

    For details, please see:
    * LL blog post: https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Update-Your-Web-Browser-to-Ensure-Secure-Payments/ba-p/3027363
    * Inara Pey’s blog post: https://modemworld.me/2016/05/04/lab-update-you-viewer-and-browser-to-ensure-secure-payments/

    Whirly Fizzle

    May 4, 2016

  • Please write a post as to why SL crashed suddenly? Even the marketplace and sl.com are down, this is scary!

    Wander

    May 6, 2016

  • There is currently unscheduled maintenance in progress.
    Please see https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Status-Grid/Unscheduled-Maintenance/ba-p/3028050

    Unscheduled Maintenance
    by Linden Theresa Linden on ‎05-06-2016 04:54 PM

    [Posted 4:54 PM PDT, 06 May 2016] We are performing unscheduled maintenance. While the maintenance is in progress, some residents may experience login issues and residents in-world may be logged off or experience degraded performance. Second Life websites also may not be accessible. Please check back here for updates.

    The login error was originally giving the wrong username/password error but now it’s giving a notice that there is maintenance in progress.

    Whirly Fizzle

    May 6, 2016

  • My husband updated us to the 4.7.7 version, and now we can’t log in at all. We have Windows 7 & 8 on our laptops. both have been updated to the new version, and we still can’t log in. Any suggestions on what we need to do to get back into SL?

    AkashaRavienne

    May 6, 2016

  • There is currently unscheduled maintenance in progress.
    Please see https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Status-Grid/Unscheduled-Maintenance/ba-p/3028050

    Unscheduled Maintenance
    by Linden Theresa Linden on ‎05-06-2016 04:54 PM

    [Posted 4:54 PM PDT, 06 May 2016] We are performing unscheduled maintenance. While the maintenance is in progress, some residents may experience login issues and residents in-world may be logged off or experience degraded performance. Second Life websites also may not be accessible. Please check back here for updates.

    The login error was originally giving the wrong username/password error but now it’s giving a notice that there is maintenance in progress.

    Whirly Fizzle

    May 6, 2016

  • No XP? Bye bye firestorm. It was nice while it lasted. I never will use firestorm.

    xp

    May 7, 2016

  • Bye! Have a wonderful time. We won’t miss you, Tell the Windows XP Viruses I said Hi for me.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • Dances a happy SL dance 🙂

    Ziggy Alcott

    May 9, 2016

  • The reason I don’t use your Firestorm (the latest version, which I only downloaded a week ago) is that I can’t move in SL – every time I try to walk or move in any way, Firestorm starts typing ‘wwww’ or ‘ssss’ or whatever move I’m trying to make. It wouldn’t let my avi budge.

    It was bloody frustrating so I deleted it. I’m sorry, but I won’t be bothering with Firestorm again.

    Souxie

    May 11, 2016

  • That’s easily fixed. If you use WASD to move, you just have an incorrect setting.
    Go to Avatar -> Preferences -> Move & View -> Movement
    Make sure this setting is TICKED: “Pressing letter keys affects movement (ie. WASD) instead of starting local chat.
    Then Apply -> OK.
    Does that fix your problem?

    Whirly Fizzle

    May 11, 2016

  • And this, ladies and gents, is the reason why we can’t have nice things..

    The user completely fails at basic understanding of the software, blames the software for their lack of understanding, and leaves a negative comment.

    It’s literally one of the first settings you see when you open preferences, in the first page.. for crying out loud, READ THE DAMN SCREEN once in a while!

    So bloody frustrating having to understand what you’re doing, eh?

    Someone that used to help

    May 20, 2016

  • Agreed.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • Oh man, the tears are so beautiful! The taste is divine!
    On a serious note:
    TLS 1.2 does not work under Windows XP. It is simply impossible to support the changes LL is doing without compromising security. If you cannot afford to go to a newer windows (or not smart enough to get it by other means), go to Linux. If you’re too lazy to do that, please do everyone a favor and go do something productive with your life instead of bawl like a little child. That goes for people who can’t afford an upgrade to support anything newer than XP: you probably should do something to improve your standing in life instead of, again, whining like a child about how you can’t play a ‘game’ because time marches on.

    Nagachief Darkstone

    May 15, 2016

  • i ma sure others have said this but some may not be able to upgrade to a newer system and have been happily ploding along best they can in sl. Is sad that so many things are being taken away from people who through no fault on their part is just how life is for them can no longer get into sl because they cant upgrade for those of us who still can feel thankful for your ability to do so. for those who have no feeling for those who are upset by this maybe you should quit sl as there is enough hate and unkindness in the rl don’t need it here to.

    kira

    May 23, 2016

  • Sure.. then you go and look at what 3/4th of those “poor poor users” are doing in SL, and you see them buying 4000L$ skins, mesh avatars, AO clothes shoes hair… and idiocy like that. Oh so poor.

    Most can’t manage their resources in years to be able to afford a $200 – $300 PC (yes, that is all it takes for an used pc able to run modern SL, and it will come with Windows 7+ too), but go look at their avatars and tell me if they’re wearing freebies or premium stuff. Count how much money they sank into their accounts. Find out how many hundreds of dollars they’ve spent in SL in the past years, and still feel bad for them, go.

    There is NO excuse for that category of users. There is no reason to hold everyone else back because they can’t manage themselves.

    So yeah, I hope it does force some users off SL.. it’s going to be better for their life and maybe they’ll finally save some money and be able to eat more than once a week. Right?

    For those instead that are truly in a bad financial situation and are actively trying to make their best to manage their money, I’m sorry. I’ve been through that situation (to be fair not being able to play SL was the least of my concerns, when you’re not sure if you’ll have enough to eat tomorrow.. but hey, priorities..), and it sucks. Maybe use the new free time to move on and find a better job.

    And finally, for those that DO have the money, but refuse to upgrade their 10 year old stuff “just because”…. well those are just idiots. and probably they don’t deserve to play. why? “Just because”.

    so.. Nope, sorry. No feelings for who will dig their own grave and lie in it waiting. Don’t complain to strangers if they don’t come drag you out of it.

    To everyone else that is actively trying to make their life better, understands the idea of saving money, and is working towards upgrading their pc (or their life): Just a little longer.. I’m sorry there’ll be this downtime, but keep saving, you’ll make it =) And prove that the rest that just lies down and complains to the system, doing nothing positive about it, are just baggage.

    Someone that used to help

    June 1, 2016

  • So darn true.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    July 12, 2016

  • I hope this doesn’t force some users off of SL permanently due to limited incomes & limited ability to upgrade their hardware. Linux is ideal for those who cannot afford a commercial operating system. For those who don’t know, barebones computer systems (no operating system installed) can be found online much cheaper & configured over time as desired. That should help take care of hardware upgrade issues.

    Mick Scarbridge

    May 25, 2016

  • O_M_G
    My viewer was working fine until being forced to upgrade AGAIN. If it is not broken, why do you geniuses think you have to fix it again.
    Now I lock up and cannot move then end up crashing.
    I go to put my old one back in and you decided to take it out so no one can use it again. Linden Labs should have waited until all the bugs were worked out of 4.7.7 before forcing us to do an upgrade.

    Aubrey

    June 25, 2016

  • If you are still having problems on 4.7.7, please file a JIRA issue (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/file_a_jira) & support will help you.

    Whirly Fizzle

    June 26, 2016

  • I really could care less about the politics, and this doesn’t affect me a bit, but I just have to say I’m really sick of people with the type of attitude where they think their experience is the only type of experience & that not only is everyone else wrong, but there is no other experience or situation for other people that are different.

    Just because something works easily for you, or you can afford it, or whatever else, does not make it easy, possible, or reasonable for other people. It also doesn’t matter if they’re a minority, they should still count for something. There are plenty of people who have their reasons for using XP, and you can sit here & berate them all day if you so wish, but the truth is you don’t know them, or their situation, or their skills. You have no right telling them what they should be doing or insulting them & calling them stupid because of so-and-so assumptions or reasons you think you have that justify it.

    I personally have extreme rage about Windows 10 and their bullshit, basically the OS is spyware, and forced updates are good for nobody. Unfortunately not enough people are standing up against it though, and that sucks. Eventually I’ll be forced to move to Linux, when 7 stops being supported. I have spent my entire life, since I was 5 years old, using Windows, and am now disabled & on medication that makes it extremely difficult to try & learn an entire new operating system, regardless of the flavor of Linux. It’s not always about old hardware either, but why don’t you just realize your experience just isn’t the same? True, some people who use XP are open to attacks, but those are almost always people who don’t know how to properly protect themselves, and that’s true of many versions of Windows.

    Regardless, I find “Sonic The Hedgehog”s comments just as rude & adversarial as the people upset & cursing at the creators here. In fact, worse, because it seems like you’re just trying to piss people off on purpose. Going through and commenting on every upset person’s comments, even ones that weren’t abusive, being extremely douche-like & acting superior, by telling them they wont be missed etc. Get off your high horse & stop acting like you’re better than other people, you just look like a dick.

    As for the rest of you, try to have a little compassion and understanding for each other. Both the XP users AND Firestorm’s creators are upset or frustrated with this situation, and while I don’t ever agree with blocking the software someone has on their own computer, I also realize Firestorm’s creators have absolutely no control over this.

    Oh and ffs, this is FREE software, stop acting like they OWE you something. They likely do this in what would otherwise be their free time, and they offer it to you as an alternative to the original viewer. They don’t have to. They don’t have to care, either. So try being a little more grateful to them, even if you’re now unable to use the version you were using.

    You may not be able to get a new computer, but possibly you can at least try to perform upgrades to things in your computer. Look for refurbished, used or otherwise parts, or you can try to buy a broken computer/laptop on ebay and replace what is broken. Sometimes that can work. In the meantime, you may just have to try something else. Either way, stop telling people who were nice enough to develop something & work hard on it to share with you, that they should die & are assholes, because seriously, the only asshole in that situation is you.

    Thanks. Otherwise I’m looking forward to trying to use this anyway. It seems pretty nifty.

    SomeoneWithNoDogsInThisFight

    July 12, 2016

  • Is there a login problem with SL tonight? I can’t get logged on.

    aprilmarie326

    July 15, 2016

  • Is there a major login issue with SL tonight? I can’t get logged on.

    aprilmarie326

    July 15, 2016

  • Yes, logins were disabled for a while – https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Status-Grid/RESOLVED-Unscheduled-Login-Maintenance/ba-p/3048849
    Everything should be back to normal now.

    Whirly Fizzle

    July 15, 2016