Your browser (Internet Explorer 6) is out of date. It has known security flaws and may not display all features of this and other websites. Learn how to update your browser.
X

Progress Report!

Plenty of folks have been eager to see another release from us, and I can honestly say that the release is quickly approaching. However, the timing of this release depends on several factors, not the least of which is… the status of Server Side Baking.

Server Side Baking

Let’s very briefly refresh about “Server Side Baking”. In layman’s terms:

  • This is the major code rewrite by Linden Lab that changes the process of how avatars are displayed in Second Life and by design ‘should’ reduce bake fail significantly, if not totally.
  • There are two stages toward this effort. First stage consists of the viewer code changes and viewer release. Second consists of the server side code update and deployment.
  • Once the server code has been deployed, anyone on a viewer that does not support Server Side Baking will not see avatars properly.
  • Everyone will need to update to a viewer that supports Server Side Baking, preferably BEFORE Linden Lab deploys the server side stage.
  • Expect the second stage to go live within a month or less.

The main thing you need to know is that if you have not updated to a Server Side Baking-capable viewer by the time LL updates the server with this code, you will not see avatars correctly. This coming Firestorm release DOES support Server Side Baking.

Firestorm Release Timeline

Firestorm is currently in very good shape for a release. We have overcome many challenges, we have the latest Server Side Baking code from LL integrated and ready, we are passing our Quality Assurance tests and we could potentially even release right now if we had to. In fact, it’s looking like this will be a very good update with a lot of great new features and bug fixes to boot! So why don’t we release now?

Because Linden Lab has not released their viewer with Server Side Baking yet. And if we release Firestorm now, and then LL realizes there needs to be more code changes for Server Side Baking that will affect both their viewer and ours, then we will have to do yet another release immediately after. We wish to avoid this. So our current plan is to let LL release their viewer with Server Side Baking, give them a few days to determine if more code is needed and, if they don’t, then release Firestorm. LL’s Server Side Baking-capable viewer will be released with enough time before the server support is rolled out for us to have this safety bumper. Firestorm’s Server Side Baking-capable release will be available in plenty of time for the server rollout.

The specific release date depends on the readiness of Server Side Baking, but we expect it roughly within the next couple of weeks.

Phoenix Users

It is very important that you understand Phoenix Viewer is not Server Side Baking-capable. It will not be possible to view avatars properly on Phoenix once Linden Lab flips that switch and rolls it out at the server end.

More About Server Side Baking

For more information on Server Side Baking, you can watch our most recent Question and Answer meeting here, where we went to great lengths to explain and inform, or read specifically about it what server side baking is HERE. Or do a Google search, many results to choose from.

Jessica Lyon
Project Manager
The Phoenix Firestorm Project, Inc

Comments RSS
  • Thanks for all of your team’s hard work in getting SSB up and running on Firestorm. It sounds like all of you have been burning the midnight oil to get everything ready based upon the town hall meeting you had. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that it won’t be quite as rough a transition as previously feared.

    Tex Evans

    April 5, 2013

  • Well the biggest challenge still lies ahead of us with the CHUI merge Tex. Fingers crossed.

    Jessica Lyon

    April 6, 2013

  • CHUI Hub added I think would be great but, I fear that a lot of people will get a kick in the face so to speak due to the large change CHUI brings.. However that being said why not allow it to be toggled for those who want to use it and for those that don’t. Also there was a New Alpha client that went up earlier this month. It’s called Project Materials, Seems to fix issues with lighting and shadows and allows better mapping of textures on objects , this would be a great addition to the firestorm code. Regardless I’ve been with you guys since the days of emerald viewer , I truly thank you all for your years of hard work on all the viewers and continued work.

    Joline Vesperia

    April 11, 2013

  • Thanks for the update and info. I can certainly wait for bugs to be crushed but I EXPECT SL issues and therefore hope to be pleasantly surprised.

    Connie Arida

    April 6, 2013

  • i cant wait to try the new viewer. i never doubted Firestorm’s team will greatly succed the challenge. You rocks guys ! Congrats.

    Trinity Yazimoto

    April 6, 2013

  • Oooo !! Is I first commenter , darlin ??

    Oh , well *sighs* . After five an a half years of prattlin about in SL , I thinks this SSB is gonna be the death of Ewanme an ppl , like me , wot gets by on antique computers wiv puny , built-in graphics cards , ain’t it ??

    I’s had a bit of a giggle squeezin as much fun outta a six year-old laptop as is possible for a human bean but I knows when the game’s up , honey :(

    I oughta say that Phoenix 1.6.0.1600 has bin a good friend to me , ain’t it ?? Runnin middlish settins (no pretty , sparkly seas for me , babe) gives a fairly usable , 8 to 20fps , experience . Err , the higher figure is attained at 3000m on clear days , I spose :p
    Above all , it has bin incredibly stable ;)

    Look , hun : i ain’t no computer egg-head , is I ?? I does know that bein FORCED to switch to a heavyweight SSB or , indeed , mesh-enabled viewer is gonna make SL unusable for me an others wot jus can’t afford to pop out an buy the latest eff-off computers , an that :(

    Anyways . Is bake-fail such a big problem , darlin ?? We all gets blurry bits occasionally , doesn’t we , but I thought that wot Ctrl+Alt+R woz for , yeah ?? In fact , I hadn’t even noticed this issue till I reads about it on here a coupla months ago, an then it seem to start happenin more often . Funny that !!

    I thinks SL would be a very dull world if evrythin ran perfect an predictable , petal . The , very occasional , failure-to-load , partial bake or “Ruth” event jus adds to the spice of it all , don’t it ??

    Wotever . I jus had to get all that offa my ample chest , I spose . See u back in-world , maybes .

    Luv E x x .

    Ewanme Botha

    April 6, 2013

  • It’s not too expensive to update your computer. $400 back in November (2012) got me a laptop capable of running FIrestorm on the basic “High” settings with Shadows and some other bells and whistles added on and still getting about the same FPS that you stated are getting now on your old computer (presumably on much lower settings?). I can also turn down the settings a bit (removing shadows) and get much better FPS.

    This is on a $400 laptop! A desktop with the same insides would be cheaper.

    The laptop I got is an Acer Aspire v3-551-8469. I got it from TigerDirect where It was actually a $500 laptop with two $50 sales, both of which I think are still running.

    I think if you only buy a new computer every 6 years, then $400 isn’t a big deal even when the money is tight… It’s about $6 a month.

    Neko

    April 6, 2013

  • Seriously, you don’t need to be rich to get a computer that can run SL. SL is still a +10 year old graphics engine. A new computer now doesn’t mean it’s out of your price range, it’s likely cheaper than the PC you have now from 5 years ago. For about $600 I’m upgrading my PC to a current-generation intel i7 with 16gb of ram.

    HUGSaLOT

    April 7, 2013

  • I really do hope the many fixes resolve the crashes I experience when working with mesh prims in edit mode, happens at least once a day, also after an hour or so I have to relog because entering edit mode starts to result in unplayable lag for the duration of being in edit mode.
    I look forward to this release and to see the new changes and the performance impact SSB may or may not have, Firestorm is my main viewer and has been since a few releases before the end of Phoenix support.

    Phillip

    April 6, 2013

  • Woot!!!
    i knew you wouldn’t let us down and have a firestorm ready that supports server side baking in time before the LL rolls out the new feature.
    I can’t say enough how much i loved Phoenix and Love the Firestorm vieuwer!!
    Keep up with the good work and thank you for making our secondlife worth living :))

    erandra1

    April 6, 2013

  • So end of this month then or early May the new Linden Viewer is expected, where can we read on SL/Linden website a preannouncement of it please?
    It is just so I can leave my SL tidy and say goodbye to friends of 5 or so years in case Phoenix is so broken that I can’t do that.

    June Oh

    April 6, 2013

  • We still do not have a solid date from LL when they will flip the switch on the server. We have been told however that they will have a blog post available soon with further information about the change and transition.

    Jessica Lyon

    April 6, 2013

  • I had to think about responding to this thread, because invariably, the small number of people who voice an opposing view get bashed or labelled a troll. Sadly, that is likely to happen to me, but I am so frustrated.
    So let me see if I have this right. You are not releasing a version of Firestorm you have, that you feel is stable, and would likely include the long awaited snapshot tiling fix, because… you don’t think it would be cool to have to release an update a few days to a few weeks after this one?
    I admit I am not a loyal firestorm user. Though I think it is one of the best viewers available, the infrequency of updates to take advantage of newer code or newer features has always been a concern. That came to a head in December when the tiling bug fix came out. Since one of my main activities in SL is making images, that was a major fix, and one that many others had been waiting for as well.
    That’s when Firestorm lost me completely. It’s now four months without that fix being implemented. The absurdity of including William Weaver’s phototools to make this an ideal viewer for image makers, even starting a flickr group to show off images made with it, but not getting out the tiling fix as soon as possible still has me shaking my head.
    Other viewers, including LL, release regularly. Are you saying that you can’t even come close to living up to that standard?
    More annoying, it appears from one blogger’s comments that there was a stable beta available some weeks ago, apparently only available to a select few.
    Now we have to keep waiting, even though you have something you feel is releasable? I am sure I am not alone in being willing to update my viewer a few days after a release. It happens with all kinds of software.
    Now, before the putdowns start, you really want users avoiding posting for fear of retaliation or otherwise being shut down or disregarded? Or would you rather have an inclusive group where users feel like they are contributing and their concerns are honestly being listened to.
    I will likely try the new viewer when it comes out, hoping that it lives up to the wait, though I have some concern that it won’t.
    But that’s as may be. The fact is, in the end, there are other viewers out there, including the Lab’s, that do offer regular updates, so problems are dealt with and new features/fixes are available.
    Jessica, I applaud your and the team’s commitment to quality. But it’s time to leave this no beta model/favoured few model behind and show a little more respect for your user base.

    Bear Silvershade

    April 6, 2013

  • If I may just point out Bear, Singularity had a release in September, they didn’t have another release until January. Exodus had a release in August and another in November, but has not seen one since. In fact, the only ‘popular’ viewer that has more frequent releases is the Linden viewer. Which if you keep track of the Linden JIRA has not proven to be very popular with their users. My point simply being that it is not uncommon for a third party viewer to have in frequent releases, it is in fact the norm.

    That said.. we had intended to release object import/export with this release, however as of this morning we are having to remove that due to serious bugs that have recently cropped up during QA, http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-9682. Now HAD we released a beta early as you suggest we should have, we would be right now having to block all users including yourself from logging into that release because of some of the issues recently discovered. You would be forced to go back to an earlier version. This would have been a result of irresponsibly releasing a build before it was fully tested.. it would have been on our head, and as a result we would have pissed off a lot of users. Not releasing something until it’s fully tested in my opinion IS respecting our users.

    I do understand your frustrations and I am not dismissing them, they are legitimate complaints. However there are very good reasons why we do things the way we do, and even though they may not be so obvious to the end users, they are for the benefit of the end user.

    Jessica Lyon

    April 6, 2013

  • Perhaps you could try not trying to pack so many changes into each release? You will always be chasing the next feature, and if you are waiting till a whole bunch is perfect, well this is the result, that needed working features aren’t released, because you are waiting on something else.
    As to regular releases, well, I am not worried about how popular the viewer is. Exodus, like Zen, appears to have ceased development, though while they were developing, offered nightly builds. Singularity, when the tiling fix and others features/patches came out, got a baseline viewer out that they plan to build on, in a reasonable time frame.
    But Dolphin releases regularly, usually every two weeks or so. Niran, while I think it goes too far wit UI changes, also releases regularly.
    But as to “irresponsibly releasing a build” that’s what a system of development and beta releases are for… let us decide, instead of adopting this paternalistic and, frankly, somewhat condescending attitude. If I am trying a LL dev build, as I often do, and it has a problem, I don’t get angry at them, it was my choice. I’ve never got to report a bug, since others usually find them before me.
    Though you say you are not dismissing my concerns, frankly, that is exactly what you are saying in your final sentence. “We have reasons, you just don’t understand” is how that comes across to me.
    Maybe if I say it more clearly.
    1) It is disrespectful of your larger user base to release betas to a special few so they can enjoy the benefits (and, yes take the risks)
    2) It is a poor model that ends up with four months between releases, leaving users without fixes that are ready to go.
    3) Incremental releases allow us to decide what level of chance we are willing to take.
    4) Contrary to your comments, many viewers, including LL and TPVs, release more regularly, getting improvements into the stream as they are available.

    Bear Silvershade

    April 6, 2013

  • What is valuable to you is not necessarily valuable to someone else. The snapshot bug means a lot to you obviously, and perhaps to you that bug alone would justify a release. That doesn’t automatically mean that bug is valuable to everyone else, and in fact the flickr stream images that have been submitted are amazing and a testament that folks have managed just fine without that bug fix this far.

    - Nirans viewer and Dolphin both have in the neighborhood of a couple hundred users.
    - Singularity was able to release the snapshot fix as a result of having been near release ready when that fix came available.
    - Exodus is still under development and should have a SSB release available soon.

    - Being a beta tester is actually a lot of work, our testers aren’t just issued a build and said please test it and reap the benefits of it. They are given extensive smoke tests which require hours of work, sometimes days for them to thoroughly test and complete. These folks work as hard as anyone else on the team and the efforts they put out to ensure a good release far outweighs the ‘benefits’ you think they gain by having buggy viewers. I applaud our beta testers as they are held to a high standard along with everything else on this project.

    All other viewers can release bugs without affecting too many people, we cannot. Although I would prefer to have our releases every two months instead of every 4, we are all volunteers and our time and availability is limited, it just often works out to every 4 months or so. We do not schedule it this way. I believe it is a responsible model which we run and it is ultimately my responsibility and task to run it.

    - I’ve no intention to sound condescending and I apologize if that is how I come across in text.
    - I was not dismissing your complaint; I was agreeing that it is a legit complaint, but at the same time stating we will not change our process ‘because’ of your complaint.

    You may not agree with my system but it seems to have served well for us and our users. We have maintained the lowest crash rate (most stable viewer) for nearly a year and we serve nearly three quarters of the user base in SL. We are the only viewer project that can make these claims. That to me suggests we are doing something right, not wrong. You’ve every right to disagree but so long as I’m running this project, and unless/until I change my mind to our current systems, this is how we will continue to operate.

    Jessica Lyon

    April 6, 2013

  • Jessica, I seem to have upset you. It was not my desire to seem like I was attacking you or the Firestorm team and system, and I apologize if it seems that way.
    There is no need to pass this post through if it upsets you (in fact, it is probably better not to), since as I said, I am not trolling or trying to cause grief; I am just an extremely frustrated user of your viewer. And I am, or was, a user, but one that your process has driven away. Nor am I alone. There may not be many of us, but I would hope you would care for all your users, not just the ones who post in the forums how wonderful Firestorm is.
    But let me pose a question, if only for you to consider. If a concern is legitimate, does that mean it merits consideration and action?
    I said in my first comment that I was concerned about posting at all, since opposing viewpoints tend to get shouted down. Perhaps there are more of us who don’t want to post their differing thoughts for fear of retaliation?
    Does your process work? Yes, obviously. Could it be modified to work better for a greater number? Of course. Like software, no process is ever perfect. No person, no ideal, no thought is ever so great that it shouldn’t be questioned, examined and improved on.
    Sadly, I leave this conversation with a sour taste in my mouth, feeling that I have caused tension and bad feeling for both you and myself.
    I am sure I am not alone in my frustrations. In fact, I know quite a number. Luckily, there are alternatives, and there, I am afraid, I must let this lie.

    Bear Silvershade

    April 6, 2013

  • You Go Girl !!!

    JonPaul Sautereau

    April 27, 2013

  • Why is everyone so keen on the tiling fix? Don’t they know the tiling fix broke the aspect ratio? So pest cured, cholera received!

    Ansariel Hiller

    April 6, 2013

  • In what way did the tiling fix break the aspect ratio, Ansariel? I have been using viewers with it since it came out, and thousands of images at a variety of aspect ratios – I haven’t seen a problem there.

    If you mean that the tiling fix breaks down at images larger than 4096 pixels, yes, I would like to see that fixed eventually, but I am perfectly satisfied with the way it is now. 4096 pixels wide is better than being restricted to screen size.

    Bear Silvershade

    April 6, 2013

  • The tiling fix breaks aspect ratio when deferred rendering is enabled. You won’t have noticed this if you run on lower graphics.

    “With deferred rendering enabled, If you choose a custom resolution, the viewer window will not be cropped to that resolution, but the whole window will be used for the snapshot, resulting in a distorted snapshot with wrong aspect ratio”
    Ref: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-1140

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 6, 2013

  • Thank you Whirly. It’s not something I come across, since I set my viewer window to the aspect ratio I desire first.

    Bear Silvershade

    April 6, 2013

  • I’m on the very opposite end of the spectrum. I can’t stand using LL’s viewer due to having to wait 30 minutes when I decide to login just to download a “required” update. This happens to a friend of mine who logs into SL only occasionally- EVERY time he’s asked to login it’s a 30 minute wait because he’s too busy updating the viewer. Even when Firestorm gets updates, and even if they did more frequent ones as you like, it still wouldn’t be as bad because the team has never forced me to log out, download an updated viewer, and install it before logging in. I can download in the background and install when it’s ready.

    DoomRater

    April 9, 2013

  • You and your friend are yet another pair in the endless number of people who never bother to open up preferences for a program and explore what options are available to them. If you did, you would have found that automatic updates can easily be disabled under the Setup tab. I have sympathy for viewer support groups who get their workload doubled or tripled having to deal with people just like you and your friend who whine and complain about something or ask how to turn something on or off in a viewer but they never lifted a darn finger to look for themselves in settings on how to change something they dont like.

    Jameson

    April 12, 2013

  • Only trolls get called trolls, and you fit the bill perfectly.
    Just the same mindless ranting and complaining that’s so typical from trolls, screaming about the lack of updates and then stating they’re not using the product anyway.
    Complaining that the release is postponed so it won’t have to be patched shortly after release, but no doubt you’re complain just as loud or even louder were that patch needed, even though you already admitted to not even using the product.

    Iala

    April 10, 2013

  • [...] strongly recommend you read this article on the Firestorm blog and plan for the [...]

  • Sotty to say but lame excuses!
    Niran’s updates His viewer every week, and if any sees the nr of downloads, not less then 2000 users in world use it steadily!
    Sl cool viewer every week!
    Exodus released a developer version on january!
    Kokua releases updated versions almost on a week base now!
    Dophin’s same!
    Only viewers that are giving on old buggy code are firestorm, Catnip and Rlv!

    foneco zuzu (@ZZBottomHL)

    April 6, 2013

  • If you go by the logic of how many downloads, then we have 436,296 users on just the lastest release of Firestorm and 655,705 on just the lastest release of Phoenix for a combined user count of 1,092,001 (One Million, ninety two thousand and one). The reality is there are less than 400,000 users in SL. We, along with the other TPV’s get the statistics from LL, taken from the server logs… a couple hundred users per week for Nirans viewer, I’ve no reason to lie. Anyways, I didn’t make that statement as a pissing contest.. simply pointing out that viewers with such a small user base can afford to screw up where we cannot.

    Jessica Lyon

    April 6, 2013

  • Only issue is they generally don’t screw up either. Every CoolVL weekly patch has worked flawlessly, every Singularity Alpha build aren’t problematic, same as Nirans, etc.

    Only up to date released problematic and buggy viewer is Firestorm.

    With firestorm updates being so slow, by the time this next version is released, it will already fallen 1-2 months behind the Official, CoolVL, Singularity Alpha, etc as the other viewers are already far ahead in development with the next batch of LL Patches, code, and new features..

    It’s almost like, instead of thinking ahead like other 3rd party developers and working with LL developmental code and beginning to code and enact their own version of the LL future development, instead you wait until the official LL viewer to implement it, then barely start working on it, while on the other hand, the other 3rd party viewers have already released their own updates as they already completed development of the new features.

    Sorta like this Server Side baking.. it’s been talked about for months and months, implemented on the developmental viewer then beta viewer for months as well, however it doesn’t seem like the FS team didn’t bother to begin working on it during this time (like the other developers), instead waited all the way when LL was ready to roll it out on the official viewer, thus months behind everyone else.

    “viewers with such a small user base can afford to screw up where we cannot.”

    you should follow CoolVL’s or Singularity’s model, have weekly or bi-weekly (even monthly would be better than nothing) releases labeled as “Alpha (Use At Your Own Risk)” no matter how small the patch, having regular releases, even if they are alpha or beta versions, this will more likely keep everyone satisfied, plus help your team locate and identify bugs if you have an alpha version JIRA rather than previously where the bugs end up being located within the official major releases (much better idea than this “Preview Idea” as a few days probably isn’t enough to locate all problems in a viewer.

    Sorrow

    April 6, 2013

  • If you would like to help test early alpha and beta builds of Firestorm, then feel free to apply to be a beta tester. Information on how to do that can be found here: http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/beta_testing

    I wish you could see the actual crash rates and user numbers of the viewers Sorrow, I really do. Unfortunately these are not allowed to be given out by us for other viewers. Only they can reveal their own numbers.
    All you can see is ranking by crash rate at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_Directory

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 7, 2013

  • The ranters don’t want to help, they just want to complain.
    No doubt the complain on the support pages for the viewers they present here as so much superior because of their higher update cycles for being too unstable because they have so many updates…

    Iala

    April 10, 2013

  • does posing work yet?

    can i post

    April 6, 2013

  • Posing? I’m not following what you mean. Can you explain please?

    Jessica Lyon

    April 6, 2013

  • It’s just that previous times I’ve attempted to post comments to some of these topics, i get a anti-spam type of page, telling me to enable Java (which it is, and also latest version installed). and regardless if i used firefox, internet explorer, or chrome, same spam/error page.

    Unfortunately, when i originally tried to write a comment, it gave me that anti-spam page, and my comment which i spent a good 5-10 minutes writing a long thorough comment was gone when i was forced to press back, so i tried again with a short few sentence reply, got the same page.

    can i post

    April 6, 2013

  • Due to some Internet issues in the past (bad connection, cruddy computer) I’ve gotten into the habit of writing longer comments into notepad and pasting them into the web form. That way, if there is a problem then I can just try again, pasting my comment back into the web form without having to retype it. It’s saved a lot of time and hassle. I don’t do it as often now as my situation is much stable, but it’s a habit that pops back in on occasion.

    Another idea is to type directly into the web form but before clicking ‘submit’, highlight your comment and copy it (press Control+C). That saves a copy in your computer’s memory which you can paste back in later if your first attempt doesn’t go through. This is much quicker. (as long as it’s not your computer specifically, or your house’s power that is the cause of the trouble)

    Neko

    April 6, 2013

  • ThX so much for the huge effort your putting into this; it’s much appreciated.

    Danaf

    April 6, 2013

  • Are the crashes that occur when you plug in a device fixed?

    (Headphones, USB, etc…always crashes FS for me. I have to relog every time before plugging something in.)

    Croon

    April 6, 2013

  • I take it you are on a Mac Croon?
    The fix for this crash is the update to FModEx which LL are currently working on. It still needs some work because it causes bugs with music streams but this fix is certainly coming soon.
    Keep your eye on http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-8393 for updates about this fix.
    This is actually our largest crasher. Roughly 11% of all Firestorm crashes are due to this bug and considering the crash only affects Mac and only about 10% of the userbase are on a Mac, its a serious crash.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 7, 2013

  • Croon your computer is just buggered up. Check motherboard (or chipset) drivers for your OS and update it.

    HUGSaLOT

    April 7, 2013

  • I have a kinda stupid question, sorry…
    “SSB-enabled viewer” code — is it “firestorm-release” branch in Mercurial repository? Does it work in today’s SL (in Agni) or only in SSB-enabled regions in Aditi?

    Allex Alcove

    April 7, 2013

  • If you mean the firestorm-release repository at http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-release/ then no, this is not SSB enabled. If you build from this repository you would have the same viewer as the current 4.3.1 release.
    All the SBB changes are in the lgpl repository at http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/summary.
    The release branch there is Firestorm_4.4.0.
    The builds containing the SSB code will work on both SSB and non-SSB regions. The SSB viewers have to be backwards compatible because there will be some delay until LL make the changes serverside and shut off the legacy baking/appearance services.

    Whirly Fizzle

    April 8, 2013

  • I don’t understand why some people are complaining that it takes to long between updates given that it has already been explained why it is like this. Some say well niran and coolviewer have a new one out ever week and well this may be true but have you ever stopped to look at the bug fix list? I bet not well I have and all I see is bug fixed bug fixed exploit fixed over and over again and the reason for this is because they are well not properly tested they are simply made and then released for public use and are totally reliant on public feedback to fix bugs and exploits and what happens if someone out there finds an exploit and decided not to report it but instead use it? So keeping a viewer in development / testing longer makes total sense as it lets them work out as many bugs as possible before it is put up for public use making it more stable. It i think also shows that they care about there users and want to protect them in that they don’t want them using software that is untested and possibly dangerous to use.

    Eqinox

    April 7, 2013

  • Kudos to the FS folks, waiting to test your latest viewer.

    Scumshine

    April 7, 2013

  • Thanks to Jessica and her team for all their hard work at getting this new release ready for us. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for a smooth release with minimal to no hiccups! =)
    Keep up the great work!

    Rob

    April 7, 2013

  • I like this statement* by Henri Beauchamp, addressing a regular Firestorm user, making his intentions and motivation quite clear, and rightly so:

    “If you prefer Firestorm, then by all means, stick with it, but don’t come and give me lessons about what would be best for my viewer (yes, I made this viewer for myself in the first place and just provide it for free for like-minded people to enjoy it. It’s in no way “a viewer for the masses”: if you don’t like it, don’t use it, it’s as simple as that !).”

    Now all the indefatigable gabbers here might take it that any other Third Party Viewer developer had the same stance what with his own baby. So what?

    (I might add that I do appreciate what Henri does albeit I don’t use his Cool VL Viewer. Kudos to you, Henri!)

    *(Statement of 2013-01-12 08:26:14, http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1063&p=4924&hilit=firestorm#p4924)

    Raymond Martinek

    April 7, 2013

  • Sadly a lot of Henri’s users come here and rant about how much better Henri’s viewer is than Firestorm, which is utterly bogus.
    But then those same people no doubt complain to Henri about how much better Firestorm is to his creation, prompting that statement…

    Personally, I much prefer FS over anything else out there for functionality, stability, and performance. Some might be better at one small thing or another, FS beats them all when it comes to having the best overall package :)

    Iala

    April 10, 2013

  • Agreed. I personally don’t understand (and don’t approve of) this “war of the viewers”-nonsense. In the end the flavour of viewer one chooses is a matter of personal taste, need and computer setup. Let’s all just be happy that we do have a choice. Flaming is, ah, unsportsmanlike.

    Raymond Martinek

    April 13, 2013

  • Bear, if you didn’t want to upset her maybe you should not have gone on and on about how you would be attacked for having a differing oppinion and then saying she has a condescending attitude. I thought she answered your questions well without being rude, Especially considering you could have asked the same questions in a few paragraphs without all the negativity. Gotta be honest, she handled it better than I would have.

    I will also note I have a hobby of testing viewers. I am not on any beta testing teams though. I do know some that are and I manage to get some beta veiewers before others. I sometimes test 10-13 different viewers in a week or month depending on how much time I have to fiddle with it. Exodus and catznip always seem to be the most stable for me. However they lack features I really want. Firestorm has all the features I have come to love and for the most part runs well. It may glitch from time to time but its nothing that is a game ender. And if its something major they usually get it fixed fairly quick.

    Firestorm without a doubt does the most testing and gives the most feedback and support of any viewer out there, period. And when you consider its all volunteer work it is pretty impressive work. So I am not shocked the release dates are farther apart.

    If you look at some of the other viewers, like nirans or Kirstens they specifically state they are trying to be on the bleeding edge and to expect problems. Every release is a beta release. Firestorm tends to wait until they have a more polished version that feel is going to work well for the majority of viewers. Often times being more stable the LL’s own viewer.

    Vladi hazlenut

    April 7, 2013

  • Jessica and the Firestorm Team keep up the good work i like the firestorm Viewer and so do my friends.
    To all the haters if you find a better viewer for you go ahead and use it and let the ppl who do use firestorm make the comments here.

    yukimura rumble

    April 7, 2013

  • I suppose the present Linden and Firestorm look on our screens to be similar that’s why simple SL user me uses Phoenix as I not like the looks of these two.
    This forth coming Linden will that have a different look, do we know?
    So what will the new Firestorm look like present or different?

    June Oh

    April 8, 2013

  • a correct representation of avatars? Now, SL would not be SL … I think it is totally overrated LOL Who needs that, after 10 years of familiarity with incorrect presentations.

    Fitna

    April 8, 2013

  • Thanks for the update. It sounds like things are in a lot better shape for this next release than you’d thought they would be at the Q&A session. Kudos to you and your team. I actually appreciate that there is some time between new releases. There are usually enough new features added each time that it takes me that long to figure out which ones will be useful to me and learn how to use them.

    Between the recent fix for the ‘Interest List’ bug and the coming SSB, LL may have figured out that fixing issues currently affecting users’ enjoyment of SL is maybe at least as important as adding new features.

    Crim Mip

    April 8, 2013

  • Will there me any encryption in the new firestorm? My partner is working in the middle east for the next few years and we use phoenix in order to have some intimate time, we are going to completely lose this if we cannot find another viewer with encryption and so far phoenix has been the only one. I also find the firestorm style viewers very *busy* and hard to navigate as opposed to Phoenix. Not happy about these changes at all. :(

    arielle

    April 8, 2013

  • “very busy”?
    The interface is the cleanest of any viewer. But if you’re addicted to the v1 style interface you can set up FS to emulate that with a few mouseclicks.

    Iala

    April 10, 2013

  • well I went into favorites and made all the landmarks at the top go away. Idk how they ended up in favorites in the first place. That helped a little, how do I get it to emulate V1? Neither my partner nor I find the V2 style appealing at all. We prefer simple. But thats the least of my worries, still don’t know how we will be able to spend time without the encryption. sucks royally. Wish linden would just stop changing things all the time. its not always for the better.

    arielle

    April 11, 2013

  • and if they don’t change things, you complain about that.
    Some people (like you) can never be pleased.

    IMO v2 and especially v3 if far superior in usability to v1, if you’d only take more than 5 seconds to learn to use it, which many of the diehard v1 crowd refuse because they’ve made up their mind that “new is bad, old is good” and are stuck in 2006.
    Well, if you want 2006 there is OSGrid and Inworldz that offer an experience pretty much identical to what SL offered back then.
    Slow, laggy, crashes, terrible graphics, no people inworldz is the biggest and has on average a few hundred people online, bots included).

    Go there, be happy, and stop trying to force LL and its users to turn back the clock 8 years.

    Iala

    April 18, 2013

  • Thanks for the update, Jessica. You and your team are doing some really fantastic work. I especially love the Phoenix settings for Firestorm.. That platform is getting more and more tolerable every day thanks to you guys.
    I’m going to miss Phoenix, but I’m with ya’ll for the long haul.

    Bryce

    April 9, 2013

  • My only real complaint about the current release is when i start up my streaming program for or djay it crashes instantly. the previous official release did not do this. is there anyway to fix this soon?

    Lillith Chatterpie

    April 9, 2013

  • please, do NOT implement the CHUI! it is the worst thing happend to second life, EVER, it makes communication a NIGHTMARE. i tried it on SL official and run back to firestorm as quick as possible (dealing with bugs now here like flicker in menu, and streams lagging), but as of the CHUI – ims land in local and local stuff ends up in ims, cause you don’t clearly see who you write too (don’t tell me i get used to it, try for yourself and see) – or if u have to implement it, please give us the option to turn it off, unlike the official viewer! thank you

    fsuser

    April 10, 2013

  • I’m sorry, but as a regular SL person it’s just like nails on the chalkboard whenever there’s even the slightest change that’s going to happen, because all the content creators start whining when they don’t know what’s really going to happen and they all say they’re just going to pick up their ball and go home. They make these doomsday predictions whenever any change that’s happened in my previous 4 years in SL, whether it’s V2, the removal of Emerald, Pathfinder, or the Havok update. And then they throw the rest of us non-content creators into a panic. I was just on with a content creator who was trying to convince me that every single thing in my inventory was going to break and that I would have to buy all new things because nothing will ever work again.

    The way I look at it is this–wait and see. If it works it works. If it doesn’t work and I can’t upgrade my computer to what they want me to use to view SL, that’s that. I’ll find something else.

    Melian Catronis

    April 11, 2013

  • With no more phoenix viewer I wont be able to play SL

    all the other viewers are just to resource heavy for my poor laptop :( unless this update gives firestorm a huge preference boost im toast and so are a lot of others who i talk to. Im really bummed that phoenix viewer is no longer being supported, hopefully someone comes out with a fix

    Dataanti

    April 12, 2013

  • I’m in a similar situation. My PC is only 4 years old but doesn’t have enough memory to run Firestorm. It uses 70% of my 4 GB RAM and I end up in a BSOD. I had to re-install my all time (6 years in SL) favorite viewer Phoenix 1.5.

    Sure I could upgrade the memory, but I don’t spend much time in SL these days. When I’m logged in I only stay on my land to make videos or take photos. I have to make priorities with the small income I have, I need the money in real life. There’s no way I will waste my money, because of Linden Lab changing the code.

    When the Server Side Baking code is implemented, it’s bye bye SL for me. I will abandon my land. No more money for Linden Lab from me.

    A bunch of credits and “Thank You’s” to the Phoenix/Firestorm team, and other TPV developers, for their voluntary and hard work to make viewers that the resiedents really likes. And a special ‘Thank you’ to Jessica Lyon, who have worked so hard (and still is), being like the spider in the net, cordinating everything, keeping us informed about Linden Labs plans for the future, besides being a part of a team that makes the best viewers in Second Life. Thank You Jessica!

    Voff Uggla

    April 14, 2013

  • FWIW, I have been using the latest version of Firestorm from the day it was released and I have not had a single crash in 4 months!
    Congrats to the FS team! :)

    Liliana Darwinian

    April 13, 2013

  • [...] viewer. Jessica Lyon, Project Manager of the Firestorm project, recently posted an important update on the Firestorm website. The bottom line is that in order to experience Second Life –see [...]

  • I have read everything that has been said. It seems that the majority of you prefer Firestorm…which is great. But, yes there is a but, for those that can’t afford to upgrade their computers, mostly cause they have other financial obligations aside from computers, they are going to be left out of the cold with all the updates.

    Please don’t come out with, “it’s only 400 dollars to upgrade” cause truth be told…400 dollars is the difference to have a roof over their heads or living on the street. They struggle to make sure that they can have a escape from real life and come into second life. Those of you that can afford to drop 400 bucks on a new system, that’s great.

    I am on of those that can’t afford to drop 400 bucks on a new system and that means that my system will not support the new Firestorm or the changes that are coming from Linden Labs. I can not afford to upgrade my system. I struggle every day to keep the roof over my head that I have.

    The changes that have been going on with all the viewers, really is hurting those that are unable to upgrade their systems. It is going to make them have to either put up with blurry images or leave Second Life altogether. That is a shame. It’s a shame that Linden labs cares so little about those that have for years been in Second Life. Some of these people have been in world since the very beginning. I have been in SL for 7 years. Once the changes come I will have one of three ways to deal with it….

    1 Upgrade even though it will cause me to lag worse then ever and my poor computer will go on strike.

    2 Stay with phoenix cause well quite frankly, Singularity and Cool Viewer are way to laggy for my system and well Firestorm, is too hard on my system I crash constantly cause my system can not handle it.

    3 Leave Second life and all my friends and family.

    So I guess i will, till i absolutely have to, stay with Phoenix and deal with the problems till the Phoenix people come out with a viewer that is compatible with all systems. Cause we all know that not everyone can run it.

    Anyways my tirade is done. For those in the same position i am, hang in there….they can’t ignore us for long. For those that can afford to upgrade and keep up with the newest viewers, I applaud you for being able to upgrade and spend your money….what will you do when the next upgrade to Firestorm causes you to spend another 400 dollars, if not more.

    Menion Azalee

    April 14, 2013

  • I don’t understand all the complains about server side baking on there old pc’s. its server side not client side.

    On top of that i haven’t crashed once in a 6 year old pc. I’m sure there are lots of explanations other than straight to linden / firestorm blame.

    Sylux

    April 15, 2013

  • Sylux, the complaint from my understanding isn’t necessarily SSB it’s about being forced to update to one of the latest viewers which the persons current graphic card may not be able to handle. Since most of the current graphic cards won’t run on 6yr old motherboards(that I know of could be wrong on that), they have to upgrade their computer. That said, as others have pointed out.. you can get a relatively decent computer for about 400-500 bucks these days.

    Beli

    April 18, 2013

  • bleh, my 5 year old -then- midrange laptop handles firestorm quite nicely on HIGH settings, good enough I have increased several of the sliders to nearly ULTRA level.

    Something that can run SL smoothly costs a few hundred Euro. IF you can’t afford that every 5 years or so, you’ve no business being in SL but should be out looking for a real job.

    Iala

    April 18, 2013

  • if ur roof needs be fixed, STOP PLAYING SECOND LIFE AND FIX YOUR ROOF, YOU ARE THE PEOPLE THAT STOP INNOVATION, GET A JOB, ROB A BANK, PROGRAM AN ALTERNATIVE TO SECOND LIFE, BUT DON’T STOP INNOVATION, NO ONE’S ROOF WILL BE WATER-PROOF IF PEOPLE LIKE YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND THAT MOVING FORWARD IS THE ONLY OPTION! thanks :)

    roof

    April 16, 2013

  • 1 word for those who fear Sl it will,end with SSb or whatever!
    Open sim!

    foneco zuzu (@ZZBottomHL)

    April 17, 2013

  • That was 2 words

    JonPaul Sautereau

    April 27, 2013

  • I agree Completely with Sylux and roof.

    Sonic the Hedgehog

    April 18, 2013

  • @Menion Azalee

    I disagree Menion. Four years at $10.42 a month of saving would net you 500 dollars. Change in software and hardware is inevitable. Just try tuning something in with a non digital tv these days. You are paying the price of ignoring progress and if you can’t afford to save 10.50 a month you should NOT be hunkered over your keyboard bemoaning progress. You may be disabled for all I know but you can work in SL too.
    Things happen that don’t suit everyone, change is inevitable, resistance is …
    Oh my! I’ve been turned by “them”

    Georgie Tungsten

    April 18, 2013

  • Hm…. should I pay rent for my land in May or pay the or the electric bill for my flat in RL. Eeny, meeny, miny, moe… wish I knew the exact date, when LindenLab will implement the ‘Server Side Baking Code’
    If I leave my electric bill for next month, they’ll give me a fine, so I’ll have to pay more. Decisions, decisions…

    Voff Uggla

    April 19, 2013

  • After Emerald, Phoenix was the absolutely the best thing to come down the pike. I am sorely disappointed.

    Shmoo Snook

    April 19, 2013

  • [...] not easy – even with the TPVs also liable to be spreading the word through blogs, etc., (as Firestorm have already). This is because even with the official blog, TPV blogs and blogs such as this one, the vast [...]

  • I really don’t understand how people can say Firestorm is impossible to run on their old computers.
    I am running a dual core @ 2GHz with only 2Gb RAM.
    I have been running Firestorm since mesh was released and right now, while i’m posting this, i have my Firestorm running at the same time in high graphics with a DD of 320m.
    So…forgive me for saying this, but the excuse of still being in Phoenix because the computer doesn’t handle anything else and being forced to leave SL because of this new update is just that, an excuse to torch devellopers and to try and force the will of a minority over the large user base of Firestorm.

    Keep up the great work Jessica and team, we will be here to enjoy your viewer for as long as you are there to develop it

    Scout

    April 22, 2013

  • I know you guys doing your best on the viewer but i need some help and answer please..

    I have only one thing stopping me from using your firstorm and that is that I cannot use voice!
    When I tick and apply ‘Activate voice’ in preffs I get the tick to say you have read vivox’s terms of usage plicy window containing the terms but both the box I am supposed to tick & the continue button are greyed out/unclickable. I have waited for ages and it doesnt appear! I have double checked firewall is not blocking etc so it’s not that. Can u help me!???
    (p.s. I have a build in mic and its not the hardware.

    Staci Scorpio

    April 22, 2013

  • I hardly write comments, however i did a few searching and wound up here Progress
    Report!

    Elisabeth

    April 23, 2013

  • hello
    i have made the last update and when i logged in to SL everything was black, i couldnt see a thing…then i decided to go back to the previous update….this time i was seeing everything(buildings, hair, huds, AOs, trees…practically everything) purple-pink…Could you please tell me whats wrong with it?

    silia Aura

    April 23, 2013

  • Hi,
    thanks for the new release! A lot of work must have gone into it. Upon first testing it apperas functional and well done — only the rezzing of avatars seemed a bit slow (but may be related to the bandwidth issue mentioned below).
    However, I am a bit dismayed that
    (a) we still have no 64 bit version for linux
    (b) integration with media players and sound on a state-of-the art 64 bit linux system is suboptimal or non-functional
    (c) the bandwidth issues for people with connections under 1 (some say: under 3) GB/s are not resolved (or even increased by moving texture baking from UDP to HTTP)
    So please keep up the good work, and please add those topics to the development backlog.
    Thanks!

    Martin

    April 23, 2013

  • Hi,
    Well I love the Fire-storm Viewer, ( all- of them ) However one thing i loved in the old is not in the new, The Avatar offset – That allows you to adjust your height in world, So i’m in the floor Lmao.

    It would be nice if that was back, due to this i’m going back to the OLD firestorm befor this one..

    Another problem I had noticed,was with My New Graphics card, Secondlife keeps saying I need to update, but yet i’m up-to date so it don’t make sense screaming at me..

    xMysticalx

    April 29, 2013

  • first off this new firestorm i down loaded is nice But the mic keeps cutting in and out its a new mic so i know its not from my pc or mic.

    2 why do all these up grades how bout giveing the people unlimited groups instead of only 42 thats what they should be working on not all the upgrades emrale was the best vewer they had

    animals bashly

    April 30, 2013

  • Jessica, I think it’s wonderful that you and your team have provided the SL users an alternative to the default LL viewer at all. You didn’t HAVE to do it, we aren’t paying you to do it, the software to download has always been FREE to us. For this I thank you for your time, your labor of love, sweat, and for putting up with the unappreciative. I have always preferred FS viewer to the standard, and I will continue to use it. Best regards.

    Brooke Metaluna

    August 2, 2013

Leave a comment (NOTE: We cannot provide support or help in these blog comments. If you need or want help please contact our support team through the correct channels. See our support page for more information.)  

name*

email*

website

Submit comment