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Old FS Version blocks to begin…

Firestorm blocks

Surprisingly there is still a significant number of users on old versions of Firestorm that do not support the current avatar rendering code. This means there are still people in Second Life seeing gray avatars and even some not seeing mesh because they have not updated to a modern version. We have stated many times this year that we would begin applying blocks that will prevent these old versions from accessing Second Life. While we know blocking these versions will be a source of drama and disappointment to some, the reasons we are taking these measures are listed below. Also, before folks start screaming, “You don’t care about us!” please realize it is only because we care that we are developing Firestorm for you, and it is because we care that we are enforcing blocks. It is important for everyone to be on current releases that support the virtual world platform, its features and its capabilities.

Why block old versions?

Firstly, we are under pressure by Linden Lab to do this, and we can either do it ourselves or adopt LL’s update system which allows them to do it instead. Either we update you or LL does, but either way, folks, updating is quite inevitable. The LL viewer enforces updates, as do most all software applications with a fair grace period. Our grace period will be three versions behind.

Secondly, updating is necessary in order to keep everyone enjoying the same shared experience. Second Life is not immersive if we see things drastically differently from one another. This is going to sound harsh, but in some respects if you are using versions that can only render avatars gray and/or versions without mesh, you might as well be—and perhaps should be—using a text based viewer.

Thirdly, it is hard for us to support. Even though we don’t officially support these old versions, it does not stop people from asking for support, to which we then have to respond by nagging them to update.

When…

Starting the week of Nov 18th we will begin initiating blocks to old Firestorm versions listed below. We will cross these versions out on this blog post as the block for each is executed and will begin with the oldest versions prior to 4.4.0. The period between each version block may range from a day to a few days. From that point going forward we will only allow three full releases to work at any given time (beta versions not included).

Versions being blocked

3.2.1.24179 release – 166 users  (Blocked Nov 18, 2013)
3.2.2.24336 release – 881 users (Blocked Nov 19, 2013)
3.3.0.24880 hotfix release – 571 users (Blocked Nov 20, 2013)
3.3.0.24882 maintenance release – 606 users (Blocked Nov 20, 2013)
4.0.1.27000 Beta – 4585 users (Blocked Nov 21, 2013)
4.1.1.28744 – 3334 users (Blocked Nov 22, 2013)
4.2.1.29803 – 60 users (Blocked Nov 22, 2013)
4.2.2.29837 – 14,120 users (Blocked Nov 23, 2013)
4.3.1.31155 – 40,451 users (Blocked Nov 24, 2013)

Those who cannot update

We recognize there are some users who cannot update to a current version due to their computer systems not being modern enough. For you there are still a few options… In some cases, people who believe they cannot run later versions of Firestorm are actually experiencing a fixable issue with which support can help; see the support page on this blog or view the troubleshooting guide on our wiki. If the problem does lie with your system, then we would suggest you try another viewer or perhaps switch to a text-based client until you can upgrade your system. There is a list of self-certified viewer alternatives HERE. Contrary to popular belief, it only takes a computer around a US$300 value or so to run Firestorm. We have many users still on Win XP with very poor hardware. Firestorm does not require a “gamers” computer. Just something from the last five to six years will usually do. A decent video card will go a long way and often is all that is needed to dramatically improve performance for you.

Tough Love

Finally, if you are one of the folks being affected by the block, you have my sincere sympathy; however, this is a step that must be taken moving forward into 2014 as it is our responsibility to keep users sharing the same experience.  This action should not come as a surprise to you, as we have been stating this would happen for a very long time. At some point we have to draw the line.

 

Sincerely
Jessica Lyon
Project Manager
The Phoenix Firestorm Project, Inc

  • Release the krakens! Haters commence!

    Jessica Lyon

    November 16, 2013

  • oooh. krakens. yay! Can we have a cuddly firestorm kraken to go with the kitty please?

    Hilary

    November 17, 2013

  • And what about Phoenix 1.6.1.1691 ?
    Are you putting block on the best version of Phoenix too?

    It is still useful for building and landscaping, where I don’t care about SSA or even seeing other avatars, and does not have some unfixed bugs that Firestorm still does.

    Shamu

    November 17, 2013

  • Wow. Just wow.

    TheMizANG

    November 18, 2013

  • LOL

    Rodney Redstar

    November 20, 2013

  • Since when does LL dictate what viewers people outside the LL KZ camps can use? You should definately not let LL force you to use their update system, as a matter of fact I think FireStorm should ban all SL connections and focus on non-sheeple on free grids.

    Sara

    December 1, 2013

  • Thanks for totally wrecking my (your) Firestorm Viewer with your latest BETA update. Corrupted inventory, broken links, endless error messages. All despite a totally clean reinstall. Reluctantly had to wipe you clean and return to the innocent shores of the official viewer. It’s crude, admittedly, but at least it works. Your previous viewer worked perfectly, but you had to press ahead and introduce a new version which, by your own admission, was flawed, simply because the ‘holiday’ season (including the internationally meaningless ‘Thanksgiving’) was coming up and, well hey, you just had to. Way to go. For the sake of any remaining users, please refrain from launching updates which you know to be flawed. One Microsoft is more than enough.

    Rufus Attis

    December 6, 2013

  • Wow… could you be any more unpleasant? I think everyone gets that the beta has issues; that’s why it’s a beta and not a finished release. But it’s entirely possible to identify and discuss problems without all the snark.

    Rhiannon

    December 7, 2013

  • Has nothing to do with haters. The betas I just tried on two computers with two different video cards are not stable, and you get crazy flashing problems whenever you enter a region with rain or particle effects. I guess I’m going to be using the SL Viewer for a while. This was not a smart move on your part. You needed to test this more thoroughly.

    Dan L.

    November 16, 2013

  • I guess where I am confused is that we cannot download this, which works great right now: Phoenix_Firestorm-Release_4-4-2-34167_SetupSL

    I was lucky enough to find a version of it in my downloads folder. If it’s still on the Phoenix website, I can’t find it, and it’s very hard to find. Why not leave this supported version up for download until you straighten out the particle issue? Go to any region with rain particles like the Garden of Sorrows sim for example, and you’ll see the problem with the new Beta rendering particles. I hope that helps to get it fixed.

    Dan L.

    November 16, 2013

  • Dan Not sure if you looked in the wiki yet> http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_older_downloads

    Amaya

    November 16, 2013

  • Thank You!

    Dan L.

    November 17, 2013

  • 4.4.2 is still available from our downloads wiki page here http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/doku.php?id=downloads linked from the main downloads page under “Other downloads”. However, while we have seen a few complaints including yours, the vast majority of our users on the beta versions have been very positive and stable. We would not list it as our recommended offering if we did not feel it was release worthy.

    Jessica Lyon

    November 16, 2013

  • I’m running both the latest beta and the alpha 64bit versions of Firestorm, and so far since installing them, not 1 crash at all, no performance issues, and both work on my gamer machine and also my basic AMD machine which cant even play games.

    But you have to learn to walk before you can run, which means people, do the classes, learn what the settings do in preferences, and take the time to tweak each version of firestorm for each computer you put it on.

    If it wasn’t for firestorm I wouldn’t even be able to use SL, as no other viewers will work on my computers, so big thank you Jessica and your team.

    Elexis

    November 17, 2013

  • Keep telling yourself that…

    TheMizANG

    November 18, 2013

  • I’ve been running the 64-Bit Alpha and the Beta since they dropped. No graphical problems like what you describe, and no viewer attributable crashes. Not one.
    The Firestorm team didn’t cause my power to go out in a storm. ;-)

    Gryphon

    November 17, 2013

  • This may help you better understand what “Beta” actually means.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle

    Mister Acacia

    November 17, 2013

  • I HAD those problems, until I properly configured my hardware to not try to use 2 videocards at the same time…
    And I HAD those problems with v3 as well, as they’re in LL code, not Firestorm specific code, that just happens to get confused when you try to run Intel specific OpenGL code on a system that tries to execute that code on an ATI card.

    Iala

    November 20, 2013

  • /me shakes my head and chuckles

    I have been using the same grpaphics card for 3 years. Just update my drivers regularly. Don’t know what everyone elses issues are, but a 1 Gig 9500 GT seems to work jsur fine. Maybe its all you. ~shrugs~
    These days you can get a decent 1 gig card for $45 at Fry’s and Microcenter. Not sure what new egg is getting for their inexpensive ones. Installing it takes a screw driver and a bit of patience. The fun part is getting the right software drivers installed.

    Anyways, I have never done a “clean install” yet either and have never (knocks on wood) has issues like many people experience. Most are user related from what I have sen in the support and beta groups, NOT software at all.

    Take the course on Firestorm Preferences everyone, will cure 90% of oyu issues RIGHT THERE.

    TTYL

    Loki

    Loksanu

    November 16, 2013

  • Yes Loki, because you’re one video card isn’t one of thousands of chipset and driver combinations on like 30 different possible OS versions including Mac and Windows.. It’s not conceivable that anyone could have issues. Must be them.. *roll eyes* I like Firestorm very much, and I think overall the team has done a great job, but I don’t see any point in “shutting off” old versions unless you make enough stable versions available to cover all the different end user hardware/software combinations out there. That’s all I’m saying. So your talking to a 15 year IT specialist here, and out of your league a little bit if you were trying to be witty. Anyway, thanks Jessica for providing the link to one of the most stable versions currently running (because myself and several others have tried most of the newer ones.) When there are many possible hardware/software scenarios out there, simplistic answers like “Loki” gave, even after you decrypt the typos, don’t really help much. We need reasonable coverage for the myriad of end user machines that are out there. As long as you don’t cut off the versions around or about the one I mentioned too soon, I think you’ve done that.

    Dan L.

    November 17, 2013

  • @Dan “I don’t see any point in “shutting off” old versions”

    I guess you did not read the whole thing.
    “Firstly, we are under pressure by Linden Lab to do this, and we can either do it ourselves or adopt LL’s update system which allows them to do it instead.”
    It is not Firestorms “Choice” to do this.

    Damien

    November 17, 2013

  • I can tell you why they block old versions.

    Because a lot of people won’t update. Either they forget, don’t realize there’s a new update, or stubbornly decide to never update. Then when they encounter problems, they start whining and crying to the Firestorm team or to linden lab about how nothing ever loads, they see gray people everywhere, etc.

    Yes, they can refuse to offer support for old versions, but people are generally stupid and don’t listen. They will complain and ask about their problems anyway. This wastes a lot of time the developers could be spending on people having issues with the newest release.

    It saves a lot of headaches if they simply block old versions and force people to update. It also spares a lot of confusion, so people on the grid aren’t seeing the same avatar in several different ways.

    Kendall

    November 20, 2013

  • Well you dont have issues with me! i enjoy this new version, exept im still having issues with objects vanishing, but nothing else.

    Tdawg

    November 16, 2013

  • Thank you Loki, however Nvidia is phasing out the drivers for the GT graphics cards. I know they are moving the 6000 and 7000 GT Graphics cards to Legacy drivers. And will probably do the same with the 8000 and 9000 GT cards shortly there after.

    However, they are still making Geforce 5 series graphics cards. Most of those are fairly inexpensive even on New Egg as well as Tiger Direct. So if you are using an older computer, I do agree with Jessica and that updating your graphics card to a newer graphics cared that give you a considerable amount more life to your system. I would suggest that if you can give something along the lines of a Nvidia 540 GTX or better. I am also not seeing very many 32 bit graphics cards out there.

    So if anyone is using a 32 bit system, I would suggest you speak to the Manufacturer of the system to obtain a newer graphics card.

    I also agree with Jessica and that you can get a good system for around US.$ 300.00 There are also some companies that sell refurbished computers, that are basically brand new just returned to the Manufacture for things like wrong colour or simply not liking the keyboard. Those can be picked up for an inexpensive price. As I have seen some nice systems that had things like Quad Core’s that had graphics cards like Nivida 620 GTX graphics cards in them. and have seen them for prices ranging from 199 to 600 for a refurbished system.

    And I know a girl in Second Life, who bought a Refurbished computer that cost her 200, that had better specs to it then the computer I had been on. Granted I understand the economy is not good, but still there are systems out there that are very good and will last you several years and allow you to use SL and the Firestorm for many years to come.

    animorf Kawadias

    November 17, 2013

  • Just a side note: AMD is phasing out the older drivers for the ATI HD 5000 and other older series as well. My last attempt to update my drivers and Catalyst Control Center ended in a nightmare. After two days dealing with failed updates and tons of crashes only a recovery from a point before the updates brought back the stability.

    Shy

    November 26, 2013

  • Glad to hear this…………for the life of me I can’t imagine why anyone would continue to run ancient versions of the viewer where user viewing experience is severely limited. It only takes a few minutes to upgrade and like Jessica kindly pointed out it is important for everyone to be on current releases.

    Keep up the great work and happy holidays!

    Bea

    November 17, 2013

  • Some are horribly resistant to change. Often you’ll hear them shout something along the lines of “It ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”

    Jaysen Katcher

    November 17, 2013

  • Some are. Some would upgrade, but they have issues in upgrading or with newest releases, so they can’t run them. Some of those need only help and support, with settings, drivers and all the “tech” stuff. Some else need to upgrade their hardware too instead. In that last case, SL may be not worth an upgrade for them, because SL is not their main activity, and they can cope with gray people and other limitations. Or, as Allex Alcove wrote, there may be places on the planet where 300 or 600 US$ is a big amount of money, that isn’t available every year to be spent just because of amusing activities. And I’m sure that there are many other reasons that we don’t even imagine.
    Whatever the reasons and the surprising number of old viewers still around, they have to upgrade if the want to continue to use SL.

    MoonWhisper

    November 18, 2013

  • Whosesoever be it, it is a very strange decision… If people are happy with their old browsers seeing everything in grey — why they should not? Only 166 use 3.2.1 — me personally can tolerate their lack of immersion. Drop supporting old browsers if you want, but why block them? After all, there’re (in theory, at least) places on Earth, that even USPS or Fry’s doesn’t know about, where a “decent video card” still costs well above a monthly wage.
    Text browsers are poor alternative because they display only, hmm… text. For someones may be better to see grey avis than to see no avis at all.
    Even though personally I’m not affected, I think this decision seem to cause only unnecessary havoc without any meaningful benefit…

    Allex Alcove

    November 17, 2013

  • Another person that did not read the whole post.
    “sighs”
    “Firstly, we are under pressure by Linden Lab to do this, and we can either do it ourselves or adopt LL’s update system which allows them to do it instead.”

    Damien

    November 17, 2013

  • Actually, it’s you who didn’t read my comment… My very first word was “whosesoever” — “whoever’s, the one or ones belonging to whomsoever”, as dictionaries tell us. I mean I don’t see any benefit in this decision, be it LL’s or FS’s or someone else’s.
    Maybe, there’re some technical reasons for blocking, e.g. “old browsers slow down servers” or like that, but in this case it would be much better to explain it clearly.

    Allex Alcove

    November 18, 2013

  • The reason we are blocking older versions was stated in the blog. I personally don’t care what viewer or version someone uses. Obviously, as we note, we don’t support every version we’ve put out, so it’s not an issue to us if someone uses a pre-SSA pre-Pathfinding viewer. But it is an issue to LL, and we are being pressured into this decision. If we don’t do it, LL will, and there will be other consequences we are not prepared to accept or pass on to Firestorm users.

    Mister Acacia

    November 17, 2013

  • Ok, not going to get into an argument. However, if LL is doing as you say… Please explain to me why it is only you they are doing it too. For example, Singularity is allowed to use older versions. I tested it today to make sure I am correct when i said this…Would you please explain why LL is only picking on you?..Confused.

    Stacie meier

    November 20, 2013

  • Stacie…. we have probably more people on out of date Firestorm versions than singularity has in ALL of its users on all its versions. Does that make sense? Does it put things into perspective?

    Jessica Lyon

    November 21, 2013

  • Thank you for continuing to provide an excellent, feature rich viewer and making sure others too get to experience SL as it’s meant to by content creators.

    charonfox

    November 17, 2013

  • Seems many have missed the most important reason stated above: “we are under pressure by Linden Lab to do this, and we can either do it ourselves or adopt LL’s update system which allows them to do it instead. Either we update you or LL does, but either way, folks, updating is quite inevitable. ” Wouldn’t surprise me at all i LL decided to ban 3rdparty viewers alltogheter if they think too many are using obsolete viewers, and we all know how utterly useless the official viewer is for many of us who are using RLVa a lot

    Elin

    November 17, 2013

  • Again, the argument is mute. As LL is pressuring only Firestorm. Am I missing something here?…And yes I did indeed confirm this. Please explain? As People i have talked to have no idea what you are meaning? Jessica please forgive me, but I think there is something you not telling us? Please dont get us back into the Emerald issues again…:(

    Stacie meier

    November 20, 2013

  • How does blocking our old out of date versions have any relevance to emerald? LL is pressuring us to adopt their autoupdate system because we have a lot of users on old versions and they want folks up to date. This autoupdate system would remove our capability and control over what versions we allow to remain on the grid and which we do not. This system would force users to always be on the latest version regardless if it doesn’t work for you, It would give that control to LL. By blocking our own versions and keeping our user base on current modern code (even if 3 versions back) we demonstrate to LL we do not need their autoupdate system and thus can justify refusal to use it.

    Jessica Lyon

    November 21, 2013

  • I don’t understand why you let LL bully you like this. Since my personalized custom version of firestorm is now disabled I can no longer enjoy its features on MY OWN GRID. I am therefor making my own viewer based on MY needs and no it will not be a fork of Firestorm anymore because I have no longer faith in how this viewer is managed. The very idea to disable viewers remotely is appalling. Why not make it impossible to log into LL dominated KZ servers and leave it at that? Why punish people outside SL because of Linden Labs struggle to dominate everything? I spent months working on a customized version of FS with a lot of builder friendly features such as a quick rez library of prebuilt objects I use a lot when designing space ships etc. Now all that work is down the drain because somebody didn’t grow a pair and tell LL to go fuck themselves. People in SL should use the LL viewer and leave us free thinking individuals outside SL alone.

    Sara

    December 1, 2013

  • […] Monday November 18th, Firestorm will commence blocking older versions of the viewer from accessing Second […]

  • No problems here, firestorm is still the best.

    00stevey

    November 17, 2013

  • Recently, I was surprised to see that there are still people using Phoenix. Anyway, does anyone remember the pre-TPV days of the almost weekly mandatory updates?

    Mona Eberhardt

    November 17, 2013

  • haters will be haters… After all, they’re the same people who’ve been screaming on the forums that “second life iz ded” for a decade yet still log in every day.
    They’re probably all using up to date viewers, whining for the sake of whining while actually enjoying their experience.

    The few still using old viewers are probably mostly people that haven’t logged in for considerable time on that specific computer and just found their viewer’s now hopelessly out of date when they use it again after months because their newer/main system is down for maintenance or because they need to log an extra alt to test something.

    Iala

    November 20, 2013

  • Jessica, I believe your first comment is very telling. It shows how much contempt you have for your users. “Condescending” pretty much sums it up.

    Reminds me of this store owner who also hated his “clients” and made this comment, “This business would be so great if it wasn’t for all these customers!”

    Also, nice job shoving the blame onto LL again. Its always their fault isn’t it?

    Now you can go back and wallow in your self pity. :)

    JeremyAtticusFinch

    November 17, 2013

  • If that’s how you feel do not use Firestorm then. We do not need your rudeness here. Go away.

    Damien

    November 17, 2013

  • And you are also forgetting that this is a NON PROFIT Organization. They are not making money from you. You are not a customer.

    “The Phoenix Firestorm Project Inc. is a non-profit, incorporated organization whose mandate is to improve the user experience in Second Life and other virtual worlds by providing an advanced open source viewer with greater features, options and interface flexibility than the standard offering by Linden Lab. The project has approximately 80 volunteers working for it and are managed through departments divided up as Development, Support and Quality Assurance. We provide live support 24/7 in nine different languages inside of Second Life through our support groups and on the web via our issue tracker.”

    Damien

    November 17, 2013

  • Contempt for users? Where is this contempt you speak of? The ONLY thing in this entire blog post that is in any way shape or form written in contempt of is LL forcing their hand to ensure old releases are blocked. It’s either block ‘em, or we’ll REQUIRE you to use our update system and WE’LL block ‘em. How hard is it to see the course of action that needs to be made here?

    Technology is not without its progress, and that goes for software as well. If your aging software cannot keep up, then it has no reason to remain in use. Sorry, but support has ended for those old versions. It’s time to upgrade. I’m quite honestly surprised other companies like MS or Adobe don’t block ancient releases.

    An0n

    November 17, 2013

  • This is just an observational answer to your question:
    It’s called tone. And while I understand the reasoning for everything in this particular update post and that there is no way around it; Jessica has a very poor habit of coming off as abrasive and defensive in her posts. It’s something she’s done for a while now. I think that is where the contempt is coming into play. She lets the posts stray too close to a personal tone and people do take it personally. They’d be better off just keeping the update posts to the facts and nothing else. It’s just something to consider; leaving less for people to interpret often fares quite well in waylaying drama.

    Panzer

    November 17, 2013

  • I did not find anything bothering with how the notice was put out. Maybe you are overly sensitive?

    Virtualban Alex

    November 18, 2013

  • I see nothing abrasive or sarcastic in the long message from Jessica.
    I rather see here a group of people who are unable to digest the fact that they have to manage with a final : no !
    This reminds me of a family story: My grandfather had a powerful car from the 90s, when gas stations began to stop the sale of non-green, it was the same serenade of complaint for months.
    I do not want to be abrasive but the solution came when the car had a final damage. My grandfather bought a small but modern car and now everything is easy.

    Gloria

    November 18, 2013

  • It’s certainly nice that some of you aren’t offended. That simply says a lot about your characters. However, not everyone interprets (especially text) statements the same way. It’s not always a matter of sensitivity either (nor is it just naysayers, personally it doesn’t effect me that older versions are being blocked). It’s professionalism. While the viewer project is provided free and work is done voluntarily, the users are like ‘customers’ and it serves far better to treat them like you would a paying customer in -some- respects. I’m just making the suggestion that if the backlash over ‘contempt’ and attitude isn’t really wanted, it would make more sense to keep things (as they used to say) “just the facts”.

    Panzer

    November 18, 2013

  • They are free to do anything they want, as long as isn’t illegal or against LL policies. If you don’t like what they do, you are free to express your opinion (and you can thank them for allowing comments here and for not censoring the negative feedbacks), and if you don’t like what they do, you are free to go to whom you think is doing that better. Freedom is wonderful, isn’t it?
    Opinions can be more or less right or biased. The team can be more or less professional, they may drop the responsibilities on LL, but about the tone, how do you hear the tone in written words? It is an interpretation, and yes, how you interpret that and your assumptions, tells something about you.

    MoonWhisper

    November 18, 2013

  • Jeremy, it is what it is. If you don’t like it don’t use it. Use those non condescending products instead. Support what you believe in! I loved wing windows, they stopped making cars with wing windows. I didn’t take it as a personal affront.

    I might add that talking smack about people who work hard to create something and allow you to make full use of it free of charge is bad form. If your only contribution is to complain, you contribute nothing. You also show yourself to be something of a spoiled brat.

    Smiling engagingly,
    Georgie

    Georgie Tungsten

    November 18, 2013

  • It might cost 300 usd for a pc suitable of running FS at the lowest or even medium settings, but in the rest of the world (mainly Europe) the parts cost more Jess. I just upgraded the parts in my box so i could run 64 bit os and have 16 gb memory, even when re-using the HD, DVD, case, VGA and CPU it did still cost me equal to 600 usd…. so i think that claiming a 300 usd PC can run FS is simply a lot of BS.

    Vanity

    November 17, 2013

  • Ooh, 600 USD … SCARY! What IS this obsession with trying to go on the cheep with computers? I save up over several years planning for it as a major purchase. Yes, a cheep computer for some purposes is an ok solution, but if it will be the centerpiece of my desk and what I am using a good part of each day no WAY will it be under 3k.

    Kara

    November 17, 2013

  • Well Kara it fit my needs and should last at least 5 years like my old one did.

    CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3350P CPU @ 3.10GHz (3100.05 MHz)
    Memory: 16333 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Service Pack 1
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 550 Ti/PCIe/SSE2

    Vanity

    November 17, 2013

  • Not at all – I think you just don’t know how to budget yourself correctly.

    Motherboard – £50 (Asus)
    HDD – £30 (WD 250GBish)
    Processor -£80 (2nd Gen i3)
    Graphics Card – £40 (AMD Mid Range)
    RAM – £30 (8GB DDR3)
    PSU – £20 (450W)
    Case – £15 (Basic ATX Mid Tower)

    -£265 ($426)

    I build PC’s all the time for people on a budget. IT’s very easy to do when you know what you need. What I listed above will get you nicely on Mid settings with about 20fps. Smooth enough for a low budgeter.

    I never build PC’s with optical drives any more. USB to transfer data is enough and installation files for anything are found online.

    Lukeh Ghost

    November 17, 2013

  • 4 GB RAM does the job too – and I guess, many parts can be reused from the old PC. But on the other side not buying the cheapest crap of a power supply might be a good idea (Hint: 80 Plus) ;)

    TheK

    November 17, 2013

  • I used to run it on an Asus A3L laptop: Celeron-M, 1Gb, Intel IGP — costs much less than US$100 (for secondhand) today. If you don’t expect too much, “technically” it’s possible to stay under US$300 on hardware, especially in US or EU.

    Allex Alcove

    November 18, 2013

  • The alpha x64 version is still running fine without crashes. Ignore the whiny-pants complainers and press on! Bring on upgrades and updates! Let’s push the limits and see what heights we can achieve.

    Cincia Singh

    November 17, 2013

  • As a non-technical user, I’d just like to take a moment to thank the Firestorm folks for providing such a wonderful viewer for us to use. Though philosophically I agree with those who’d like no blocking ever to occur, I’d much rather be forced to update (although I’m not in that position personally) by the team that brought the viewer to me than by LL. Firestorm is a product I would be willing to pay for, and given the fact that I do not have to, my support for the decision the team has made is wholehearted. Thank you, Firestorm team, for bringing us a multitude of wonderful features, and for being honest about the situation when the time comes for bad news. I’ll take that approach any day compared with a sudden unannounced change.

    As for hardware, the laptop I’m logged in with right now (Beta 4.5.1.38838) performs quite nicely on this latest version, and sells on eBay under $400 with regularity (HP EliteBook 8540w).

    Angie Tairov

    November 17, 2013

  • I am very grateful to the entire Firestorm team. I could not put up with anything like this level of abuse over a labour of love; something we many users don’t pay a penny for. I would personally have put this all on Linden Lab. As it is, you’ve kept these old versions going a lot longer than anyone could have hoped for. When the screaming starts, and it no doubt will, refer them to Linden Lab and wish them a good day.

    David Cartier

    November 17, 2013

  • Thank you again and again for Firestorm. People, never forget all the work they do for us.

    Kay

    November 18, 2013

  • Hi guys, could u get some “block/mute option” on those group invites instead of just ‘ignore or join’. It is annoying of how many of that we see around SL. We certainly would appreciate that. Ty,

    R0dz Runo

    November 18, 2013

  • I’m just a simple user/game player of SL who is not happy with FS also do not know which is the best of the 3.
    So been using Singularity with it’s a proper release of 64, it seems to run on my PC ok and is more Phoenix like than FS with the way it does IM’s and Notifications.
    Anyone compared the performance?

    June Oh

    November 18, 2013

  • Um have you tried using the settings in FS to have your chat to be the way you like it? Seems a bit silly to run through 3 different viewers because you do not adjust the settings to your liking for chat.

    Damien

    November 19, 2013

  • Not really understanding your reply to me on the small icons I get at the top right hand when I prefer the old way that Singularity does them for the Notifications and IMs.
    Are you saying settings will show then in the old way? If so I failed with them.

    June Oh

    November 20, 2013

  • I have this cable that runs into my house that has over 70 HD network channels and features digital music out the wazoo.
    I also have a great little tv that is about 8 years old and works fine. It still hasa super clear picture, but here is the thing. That TV is so old and outdated by current standards that it does not have the input required to attach my cable. I needed a modern tv to attach to my modern cable.
    That is how life works people. LL is moving ahead with the latest technology and FIrestorm, in its effort to bring a viewer that works for the most people possible (not everyone! no viewer will ever do that) is keeping up with those advances.
    Evolve or die! Instead of complaining that the viewer is not designed to your individual standards, perhaps you might consider being thankful that the FS team goes out of their way to provide you with a viewer that goes above and beyond the standards of what LL offers, and they do it for FREE!

    Soda Sullivan

    November 18, 2013

  • yup. Had to replace my cellphone a few years ago because the old one no longer worked on the network of my cellphone provider.
    They didn’t for all eternity keep supporting the old systems that allowed my by then 5 year old phone to work. No, they replaced them and then told me I’d have to buy a new phone if I wanted it to work without constant connection problems.

    I didn’t complain, I got a new phone.

    Iala

    November 22, 2013

  • […] Lyon, the project manager for the Firestorm Viewer, posted that they will begin blocking older versions of their viewers. Jessica is anticipating the drama […]

  • […] have started to block old Firestorm versions this week as previously planned for weeks and this will continue for the rest of the week until it’s […]

  • TL;DR thread. FS Beta works fine for me. Mind you, I’m the kind who can manage a 275 hour login on LL’s viewer without falling over, so my experience may not be average. My comp is several years old. Looking forward to moving on with the full release and ahead to future versions.

    Motoko Henusaki

    November 18, 2013

  • As of now, 4.4.2.34167 (prev to new beta) is fine with me, except for disappearing items (but have experienced that on other viewers than FS). I remember when it was released, in tandem with the huge LL baking upgrade, so it was a forced upgrade for FS users, pretty much. It was horrible. So much so, that Jessica apologized and took responsibility in a long blog post. However, seems now that many of the issues were LL and server side based and have been resolved by LL, and thus FS performs better. I also cleaned up my computer and zeroed in on the settings. I’m not saying it is perfect, but things have improved and nothing changed but what LL has been doing. Anyway, the lesson in all this is that FS is only the client, LL controls the server side and can screw things up on any given week (more often than not). It is easy to zero in on FS, but it is less than half of what we experience.

    As far as ‘forcing’ people to upgrade…on the one hand, it is a free country, and if mesh or other avis are not your thing, fine. But as a former software engr and project mgr, yeah, it is really hard to support old versions, even if you don’t support them. :) (and I was getting paid, unlike most open source project folks), plus, with the massive LL changes, well, you get the idea. Not to mention ALL the hardware/software combos out there.

    I keep all install files I’ve ever used (within reason), and for those who need the legacy stuff, or find they need to roll back, I recommend same. My backup machine will not run any newer versions of FS and the SL viewer is so not fun. But, if you are going to use unsupported versions, don’t ask for support; it keeps the team from moving forward and fixing the current bugs, developing a newer and better FS for us, etc. “Unsupported” means ‘on your own’ or ‘at your own risk’.

    Etierre Bonde

    November 19, 2013

  • I am running a 6 year old computer that cost me 300 at the time. this thing literally has NO trade in value anymore as the parts are simply too far out of date. YET i can still manage to run SL on my own custom visual settings starting with the slider based in between med and high. i have also had issues with firestorm on several occasions that a simple romp through the support wiki on both the LL viewer and Firestorm group viewer pages or even a simple google search couldn’t fix. Staying on top of windows updates, hardware driver updates and putting in an effort on your part can get the latest viewer release to function fine. A person is never too old to educate themselves or even ask for help. Key point is do not drop all the blame on the the these guys or even LL. Laziness is the most common “technical problem” out there. My father is 52 years old and can run circles around me when it comes to computers (he is like a walking knowledge base for windows software and PC hardware). Here is my little setup:

    CPU: AMD Athlon II x2 215 2.7 GHz

    GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4850 (not overclocked)

    RAM: 4GB DDR3

    Motherboard: Foxcon (haven’t looked at it in ages, not cracking the case to get the model number)

    Factory fan cooling

    600 Watt Power Supply

    Windows 7 SP1

    DVD R RW

    Not much else to it. I for one am fine with the old viewers being blocked. The fact that this is a FREE viewer and people STILL complain is astonishing. It is one thing to simply offer a bug report or point out issues but to blatantly complain over something your getting for free is pathetic and ever so ungrateful. If you don’t like it, don’t use it. it is a simple concept and COMMON SENSE. ABOVE ALL, they took the initiative to do it themselves. This viewer is a product of their efforts and distributing it for free. They can do pretty much whatever they please as far as i see it.

    Andre

    November 19, 2013

  • Installed the new Beta version for OpenSim… It would not work with Win 7 (or maybe it was me :-)) … Application kept closing down when I tried to open it. So, I am sticking with Phoenix_Firestorm-Release_4-3-1-31155. :-)

    SallyC

    November 19, 2013

  • 4.3.1 is scheduled to be blocked this week. I would suggest you try 4.4.2 if the beta did not work for you. Or better yet do a clean install…

    Jessica Lyon

    November 19, 2013

  • I think they said the beta is for SecondLife grid only at this time.

    Damien

    November 19, 2013

  • OK to side step all the bitching and complaining about things for a moment. To bring up a note about why it so important to update the viewer that is easy. By Updating the Viewer to as new as you can possibly use, and doing a **CLEAN INSTALL** not an Uninstall and reinstall with an updated viewer. When you file bug reports with Linden Lab as well as with the Firestorm team, **”YOU”** are not filing false bug reports that was fixed Several Viewers ago.

    By continuing to use an old outdated viewer, when you file bug reports neither Linden Lab or the Firestorm can determine if the bug is valid or a regeneration. And when it is noticed that you are on a Viewer that is not current, your report will probably be considered a false report and just placed in file 42.

    So truth of the matter is, when you tell us that we do not care about those of you who use the Phoenix-Firestorm or that Linden Lab does not care about it’s user I have news for you. Truth is that it is not use or Linden Lab that does not care, it is in fact those of you who refuse to use the newer viewers that do not care.

    That said I care enough about my experiences in Second Life to keep up to date, with all my stuff and to help test the viewers so that everyone can have the best viewers possible. And have the best experience you all can possibly have with Second Life. But if you do not care enough to keep up then, by all means please feel free to be left behind and ignored with issues that have long sense been fixed since the time of your viewer release.

    animorf Kawadias

    November 19, 2013

  • Not only that, but by using a current viewer with SSA code, you also rez properly (most of the time) to others. Those who aren’t using such viewers actually do negatively affect others’ user experience by showing as a grey.

    Crim Mip

    November 20, 2013

  • […] incompatible with server-side avatar baking, yet they still rage and stamp their feet when Firestorm announces its intention to block them. You can’t help wondering whether these same people are sat watching the noise on their […]

  • On moving forward: bravo.

    On leaving friends behind: perhaps necessary, but in certain cases quite sad. Let’s face it… not everyone can justify the expense and hassle of keeping up with the times.

    But since we are keeping up with the times… I’m very looking forward to 64 bit Linux Firestorm. 32 bits in the Linux world is practically ancient history by now. ;)

    Sean

    November 19, 2013

  • It’s also pretty much history in the Windows world.

    Lee

    November 25, 2013

  • I’m ever amazed about people.
    Especially when it comes to comments anywhere on the web.
    The intensity of hatred and rudeness … it’s scary.

    However, I just tried to connect a mechanical typewriter from our attic to my SATA hard drive. I dunno. Somehow it didn’t work. Oh well, I might just have to upgrade it.

    Here’s my everlasting mantra on Firestorm:
    - It’s free.
    - It’s better.
    - It’s optional.
    - If you don’t like it, or can’t use it on your system … Don’t!

    What on earth could anyone with a rational mindset complain about? It’s mute. The only reasonable comment on Jessica’s post is:

    “Thanks for letting us know.”

    And for FS enthusiasts, like myself, maybe also:

    “I appreciate your work against all odds and look forward to anything new you come up with for those of us who love the FS experience.”

    Nuff said.
    Encouraging hugs & cocoa (with marshmallows) for the team!

    Peebee

    November 20, 2013

  • Jessica THANK YOU!!! and everyone at firestorm for the work you guys do. Right now Im have trouble runing the beta, but did I get on here crying NO! I didn’t. I want SL to look better. if the old ver are bad get rid of them. Iwant to see SL look as good as the new games out there so do what needs to be done you guy and LL!

    misfit

    November 20, 2013

  • Don’t really need expensive hardware to keep up to date if you just bother tweaking the settings to fit your system. even my ’06 vintage Acer TravelMate 3282 runs 4.4.2 smoothly as long as I lower draw distance and do some other minor tweaks, and don’t keep too much other stuff running in the background.

    Elin

    November 21, 2013

  • @Elin You just hit the nail on the head for fixing about 90% of most peoples problems with the viewers. And that tweaking the settings to fit your system, as well as to lower draw distance and do some other minor tweaks, and don’t keep too much other stuff running in the background.

    Sure you may have to do some additional tweaking with the newer viewer, but usually that is very little adjustments to get it to preform good on even a older system. And since Firestorm has a backup settings function now that also takes a lot of the work out of it.

    Not to mention that the Firestorm Team offers classes for those that need a little extra help with making those adjustments and even using the more advanced functions. The help is out there for those that need it. As all they have to do is either open up the support group and ask for it in a polite way, or attend one of the many classes on the viewer.

    animorf Kawadias

    November 25, 2013

  • So far, the beta has been great. I haven’t went into the win 64 bit. Never have I had any of the issues many others have had in any version of Firestorm. Most of those issues are going to be with their own systems, not directly due to Firestorm. Never will any program work with every platform and every computer system. Just like most games.

    It’s all been smooth. I think I had one glitch but that was fixed by another clean install and no issues since.

    Love this viewer, glad the materials were finally put in too.

    RavenSkye

    November 22, 2013

  • My feedback. After nearly a month that I’m using the beta (installed since the very 1st day, because it was “recommended” and used every day after), today I have reverted back to 4.4.2. Although the beta doesn’t crash and I like the new features, it has a number of problem, bugs and broken functionality that eventually made me to step back. Among the worser issues happened to me and my friends:
    - The new Move-Lock suddenly (ie after a teleport) enables by itself. No, it wasn’t hit the shortcut by mistake. And I read somebody else, in the comments to the previous post, who experienced the same. Usually it is possible to unlock it, but in the Linux version the only option was to detach the LSL bridge.
    - Folders moving up and down in the inventory window and the new folders coming from unboxed packages appear misaligned, when dragged into another folder. I use to sort and organize my inventory, but this problem is not just aesthetic, but it caused a couple of messes.
    - RLVa not working properly (devices not detecting RLV when it is enabled or the permissions dialog not working, getting it again and again)
    - Part of the music streams (mp3) aren’t working and stay silent (probably FIRE-11106, coming from V3)
    Plus the various know issues, such has the 3-6 seconds freeze when a script opens a dialog or with the Preferences window.

    However it’s normal that beta-test releases show bugs and issues: the beta test exists for the precise reason to find them out. Since beta-test releases are meant for test before the final release, an user would expect that in the meantime the current release is 4.4.2. Going in the download page there isn’t trace of it. Instead the user has to rummage a little to find it (no wonder that I read comments of people wondering where it went) and not only it isn’t listed, but “the current release” is now in the old releases.
    So this release (and the sense of the previous post) appears more like a rushed release (due to the incoming holidays) instead of a true beta, because not only what would be the current release is listed actually as old, but this “beta” is presented to be used, not for beta testing, and it is even recommended; while it is called “beta” mostly because it wasn’t polished etc enough. It is usable, and your mileage may vary, but this time I had to go back.

    4.4.x had its own problems too and it caused lots of discussions. If it wasn’t for SSA, maybe I’d be on 4.3 now, waiting for a better release, or maybe not. I remember old news telling that Firestorm was going to have a difficult period because all the new upcoming changes in SL. Maybe it is a bigger and longer work now, so I can understand it. I’m using Firestorm since the beginning and I always kept it up to date: this is the first time that I go back to a previous version and for now I stay on 4.4.2. But once it will be polished and at the normal quality standards of Firestorm, it will be great, I’m sure. Keep up the good job.

    MoonWhisper

    November 24, 2013

  • I don’t even use secondlife, but it seems that the blocks apply to opensim too…what’s that all about?

    cheryl

    November 24, 2013

  • I used version 3.2.2 and worked very well have a good computer and offboard video card, the version was locked and updated, also updated the card driver, no version works well …. I was forced to abandon the firestorm that I liked because no new version works

    Angel

    November 24, 2013

  • Here is what you utterly fail to understand – your version does NOT work correctly.

    3.2.2 is pre-Server Side Baking. It will not display the visual data it gets from the server properly.

    I have my own issues with 4.4.2 – but it at least works.

    Dark Wolf

    November 25, 2013

  • Why not provide some information to the in-world support group so that you can get assistance? As it is, your post doesn’t really help anyone, including yourself.

    Lee

    November 25, 2013

  • if the version works correctly I see no reason to be locked and each person can choose what works best on your machine

    Angel

    November 24, 2013

  • Angel,
    If you read the original post from Jessica you should see that Linden Labs has made it clear that either Firestorm needs to block the viewers or they will be forced to implement the Linden Labs system where you are basically forced to upgrade to the newest version, no choice at all. At least this way you have access to the last 3 versions. So if you don’t like what the Firestorm solution provides you can emulate the other method by simply using nothing but the latest.
    Firestorm is not like the other TPVs because it has more users than the Linden Labs viewers and Linden is moe concerned with Firestorm because such a large portion of Second Life users are on Firestorm so FS is ridden harder by LL and watched more closely.
    Please people, read the actual post and understand the developers dont have another choice . It is either block all but the last 3 or implement Lindens forced update model.

    Wondering how many times it must be said,
    Georgie

    George E. Tungsten

    November 25, 2013

  • I don´t mind the blocking, the mistake made was the release of an almost disfunctional beta (32bit) on the main release channel.

    Viivenne

    November 28, 2013

  • Versions that are being blocked don’t “work correctly.” Showing gray avatars and objects cannot be construed as working correctly. It’s time to move forward.

    Lee

    November 25, 2013

  • Read the text of the blog. THey had no choice. Also, your use of a viewer that doesn’t support SSA negatively affects everyone else’s user experience because you won’t rez properly for them.

    Crim Mip

    November 25, 2013

  • Well I’ve only run into one issue on the beta viewer, though the issue also resides on the current release. When wearing mesh clothing layers, the clothing layer sometimes vanishes without warning, though it appears to only do that on my end. But other then that it was been stable.

    Lirra

    November 25, 2013

  • I’ve had that with one machine, with one specific videocard, on all viewers for the last year almost, at unpredictable intervals, though usually in laggy situations.
    It seems viewer independent.

    Iala

    November 26, 2013

  • Why are really old viewers like Phoenix 1.6 still allowed?
    These don’t render mesh, have limited number of attachment points and refuse to render lots of other options.

    Even worse, some old viewers are hard to find, and are spread with male-ware build in, to prevent upgrading to more recent viewers!

    Galatea

    November 26, 2013

  • Open sim grids or stand alone ones can still get some use to those old versions!

    zzpearlbottom

    November 28, 2013

  • After using the 64 bit beta this whole time here’s an update on how it’s going for me: AWESOME. I am pretty sure this is still the only viewer that can display shadows with my geforce titan (even the default viewer doesn’t). As a second lifer since 2005 I know what blame goes where, and there’s just no blame to be thrown towards firestorm. They are saving second life.

    00stevey

    December 2, 2013

  • The regular viewer works perfectly fine. In fact on my computer the regular SL viewer gets me a couple more FPS than Firestorm. They are both good viewers. Regardless, the viewer simply connects you with your friends in SL. Hyperbole is not reality.

    cincia singh

    December 2, 2013

  • Here is reality for you: The default Linden Lab client works perfectly fine on YOUR machine. It may not work perfectly fine on another user’s machine.

    In short? If all you are going to do is extol the virtues of the default client and treat anyone who has had a better experience using a different client, you can stuff it.

    Dark Wolf

    December 10, 2013

  • For them that can’t run the Viewers. Why not think about going out more & getting some kind of a life & make some cash n upgrade your shit..

    Either that or stop crying, it’s only a Game, It’ll be here when your’ve upgraded.. Regretfully !

    Code

    December 3, 2013

  • Wow, that’s a very unpleasant response. You realize FS and SL has an international audience? One that is perhaps not made out of money and computer upgrades? That some escapism on SL is really the only social outlet for people in some benighted countries like Saudi Arabia, Turkey and other parts of the oppressed world, this is the ONLY expression some women, gays, and other LGBT can even enjoy? So you must be feel wonderful about putting your first world problems on them and dropping support for old hardware really. I commend you on your asperger’s like sensitivity once again.

    kanomi

    December 5, 2013

  • Please leave allusions to mental disorders out of this. Asbergers is not something to be used as an epithet to hurl at others.

    Rhiannon

    December 7, 2013

  • Kanomi,
    I can agree his tone was not as diplomatic as one might aspire to but I can see where it comes from as I hear people on here regularly speaking as if they are entitled and FS team needs to meet their needs.
    There are many people without the financial wherewithal to upgrade but their plight is laughable in relation to the millions who have no clean water, food, access to medical help or education etc.

    As for political repression, well the revolution will not be virtualized to paraphrase Gil Scot Herron. Political repression calls for struggle and risk and sacrifice. Not socializing on SL It is not necessary to have 3d venues to express oneself. The worlds artists and great minds all made their marks for thousands of years without SL. They made due with the blue paint if they couldnt afford other pigments. They wrote and communicated without benefit of deformable mesh clothing or windlight.

    As far as this being the only means of expression I call bullshit. If this is the best you are going to attempt then you have given up, you have to assert your dignity it isn’t served on platters and true empowerment doesn’t come through wishing it were otherwise and pretending it is so here.

    Quentin Crisp didn’t need second life he came out in the mid 20th century in england wore makeup etc. He is a hero. And While I would never out anyone, as I don’t know what the repercussions could be in their life, keeping quiet rl and taking the easy way in virtual worlds is hardly praiseworthy.

    Also Second Life is not run by the FS team. It is run by Linden Labs and if you have issues about the changes you might do more by petitioning them as they make the changes and the rules. The FS team just tries to come up with options and they apparently do quite a good job if you look at the figures as far as which viewer is most used i.e. PREFERRED.

    As far as Aspergers like sensitivity, well there is a place for compassion and a place for encouraging people to stop resigning themselves to permanent victim status and doing something to move it forward’.

    If you have enough money to maintain a network connection and you own any computer consider yourself fortunate. It could be far worse and is for millions.

    Sanctimoniously Pontificating,

    Georgie

    Georgie Tungsten

    December 7, 2013

  • Code, i do hope Fisrestorm team does not belive as you, that is only a game, as you are missing the most important feature of Second Life and/or any other virtual world:
    Tools for making your dreams true!

    zzpearlbottom

    December 4, 2013

  • As was said before you do not need a high end pc to run SL especially using Firestorm. I use an older Intel core2duo with windows 7 32bit and four megs of ram. I have an AMD Radeon 6670 video card which is an entry level gaming card and did not cost that much. It runs SL smooth as silk. I use the V1 style in Firestorm because that is how I started in SL a long time ago. It also has to do with memories of traveling around SL with the V1 style viewer for me anyways. Thank you Firestorm for keeping the memories and the V1 style viewer.

    Rich

    December 4, 2013

  • oops, correction 4gigs of ram.

    Rich

    December 4, 2013

  • Because there is so much error and the pictures?
    Often get error 1772.
    Or I can just take a picture and is locked to save another.

    It’s driving me crazy and continually come out to take more than 2 shots in a row!

    Aracuan

    December 7, 2013

  • Singularity.

    -gets popcorn and watches-

    MisaoAkiOlivier

    December 8, 2013

  • The new firestorm beta its so sand, i thing firestorn use us as a lab rat. I hear this comment: Those who cannot update
    We recognize there are some users who cannot update to a current version due to their computer systems not being modern enough. For you there are still a few options… In some cases, people who believe they cannot run later versions of Firestorm are actually experiencing a fixable issue with which support can help; see the support page on this blog or view the troubleshooting guide on our wiki. If the problem does lie with your system, then we would suggest you try another viewer or perhaps switch to a text-based client until you can upgrade your system. There is a list of self-certified viewer alternatives HERE. Contrary to popular belief, it only takes a computer around a US$300 value or so to run Firestorm. We have many users still on Win XP with very poor hardware. Firestorm does not require a “gamers” computer. Just something from the last five to six years will usually do. A decent video card will go a long way and often is all that is needed to dramatically improve performance for you.

    I have the a ultimate compute whit the best hardware, the last graphic card nvidia make etc, and beta version run wrong whit many errors.
    Sincerely i love firestorm, because its the better to take picture and have many options, but this version its really wrong guys,

    Ewan

    December 10, 2013

  • On YOUR computer Ewan YOUR computer. When are you folks going to realize that FS not running on YOUR computer does not constitute a fail.
    This project is not about YOU and YOUR configuration. There will be releases that work better or worse on YOUR set up. Try seeking support, failing that try other viewers. If none of them can work satisfactorily for YOU maybe it is YOU.
    Submit your bugs to the JIRA, seek support, change viewers but whatever you do FFS stop whining and stop expecting the world to solve your issues.
    I have problems too from one release to the next. I work my way around them as best I can. Nobody owes me anything and they don’t owe you anything either.
    Count your blessings and go past complaining to work through your troubles.
    Much gratitude is owed to the developers if you have had the good fortune to benefit from their donated time and efforts.

    As a final note, if you really find it all just a huge fail and you feel like a guinea pig try the path that is open to you, LEARN TO WRITE AND DEVELOP what you would prefer. It doesn’t require a genius just time, effort, and some attention to detail.

    Cordially yours,

    Georgie

    Georgie Tungsten

    December 11, 2013

  • Cincia Singh

    December 12, 2013

  • Apparently it did not sink in for you the first time, I’ll be a bit clearer this time: If the official Linden Lab client ran perfectly fine for each and every single user, no one would be using a third party client.

    The official client works for you – lovely.

    Now then, stop pushing users in the direction of a client that obviously does not work for them.

    Dark Wolf

    December 14, 2013

  • I understood you perfectly, but I don’t take any of this too seriously. The comments here make it obvious Firestorm doesn’t work for everyone either; no surprise same base code. The trouble in most cases isn’t the viewer it’s the hardware configuration (i.e. old) of the user. Oh, and please stop issuing orders and being so serious (it’s about an SL viewer not world hunger).

    Cincia Singh

    December 22, 2013

  • It’s not a matter of taking things seriously or not, it is a matter of pushing a client program that works well FOR YOU as if it’s the answer to everyone’s problems.

    Don’t like being told off for doing so, don’t do it.

    Dark Wolf

    December 25, 2013

  • Oh, and you’d do well to stop assuming that a hardware configuration that does not run the stock client is “old”.

    Dark Wolf

    December 25, 2013

  • Firestorm open sim 64b version is working stable on OSgrid, Kitely and other open sims grids, that is enough for me!

    zzpearlbottom

    December 10, 2013

  • I’m using Singularity 64 on SL very good results and user friendly like Phoenix was.

    June Oh

    December 12, 2013

  • My older PC – which once was a middle-class-gamer PC, is not able to update to a Mesh-viewer at all as it is an old AMD without the SSE2 instruction set … so this PC is not going to SL anymore at all … as I have a modern PC aswell, this is not a big deal for me, but for others having non-SSE2-PCs it may be.

    KT1+2

    December 12, 2013

  • I’m really sorry if somebody is stuck with a 7+ year old PC (probably older) without SSE2 capability, but they can always use a text based viewer until such time as they can upgrade to something a little less legacy. SSE2 is an extremely low bar to meet.

    Crim Mip

    December 13, 2013

  • And your point is? You are stating this as if Firestorm has a choice. The correct place to be heard would be on LL forums since it is LL that is forcing the old browsers to be gone.

    Damien

    January 12, 2014

  • Mkay…here’s my thoughts on this whole matter. I’m mainly directing this comment to the hordes of people who keep complaining that this free service they’re getting is never good enough.

    First of all, if you refuse to update your viewer you have no right to complain about bugs. How can bugs be fixed other than by releasing a newer version of the viewer? When you report bugs, and they’re fixed in the next version, but you refuse to update and you continue to complain about said bugs, that’s nobody’s fault but your own for not updating. The dev team can fix the bugs and put out a new version, but YOU have to download it. They can lead you to water, but they can’t make you drink.

    And if the new version has new bugs that weren’t present in older versions, report them so they can be fixed in newer versions. Going back to the older versions doesn’t solve anything, because they have their own share of bugs and issues that are solved in newer versions. Going back to an older viewer means those issues will NEVER be resolved because you won’t update.

    If it’s simply a matter of your dinosaur-age PC not being able to keep up with the increasing graphical demands…well, sorry, but that’s just too bad. You can’t expect technology to remain stagnant forever just because you can’t or won’t upgrade your PC. Sorry if that’s harsh but it’s just the way it is. As technology evolves, so must you adapt.

    If it really is an issue of poor optimization, like if other viewers seem to work better….see paragraph 3.

    Really people, they’re doing all of this for free, you’re not really entitled to any of this. If they wanted to block all the firestorm viewers and say “sorry not doing this anymore” they could. I’m surprised they haven’t, having to deal with the immensely entitled attitude some of you have. There are other 3rd party viewers out there you could try you know, it’s not like you have to either use this or the LL viewer.

    just my 2 cents.

    Kenny

    January 14, 2014

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