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Jessica Lyon’s Opinion

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Firstly, thank you all for commenting in the previous post, nearing 600 comments now and still growing. It is a real mix of responses ranging everywhere from level headed to total panic ridden people to some really good suggestions on how to improve our current Second Life. Thank you all for that and over the coming days I will sort through and read each one, taking from it the ones that actually stayed on topic and provided suggestions on what features would be most valuable. I will hand deliver these to Oz Linden.

Jessica Lyon’s take on things…

But now I’ll take the liberty to voice my opinions as I promised I would. The following video is an hour long talk I had with Saffia Widdershins at SL11B and as many residents as the region could hold earlier today. The topic was “THE FUTURE OF SECOND LIFE” and covered obviously the future of second life as well as speculations on the new virtual world platform LL is developing. I also discussed my feelings on the general reaction folks are having to the news. Please take the time to watch it.

Video without textual feedback from the audience. http://www.slartist.com/sl11b-talks-special-jessica-lyons_bc79f038e.html
Video WITH textural feedback from the audience: http://youtu.be/WemxFkTvLls
Text summary by Nalates Urriah http://blog.nalates.net/2014/06/26/jessicas-future-of-sl-even-at-sl11b/
(Opinions expressed in the recording are those of Jessica Lyon and do not necessarily reflect those of the Firestorm Project or its members)

Special note to Linden Lab Executives: Please watch the last 10 minutes of the first video if nothing else. 

JL

  • Alot of people aren’t as excited as much as linden labs wants I know that sl isn’t disappearing and as long as it still makes them money. That point probably added to the scare some for those that watched it. I watched the whole video parts more then once but there was so much lack of info it’s hard not to worry people may have been better to have a video preview or more info might have been nicer. Without that it was easier to get worried and upset. Most people won’t want to start over from scratch. and I can’t blame them. however I am going to continue to use sl as I have (buying items, modding, and other thing) For now sl is here. Hard not to have concern but sill do my best to not let my worries ruin sl for me

    waycomp2002

    June 26, 2014

  • To All the Second Life users I say this: Remember what happened with the Coke Cola Company. Then ask yourself this, do you really think that Linden Lab and Mr Ebbie, would do the exact same thing that Coke Cola did?

    To the Linden Lab Executives, including Mr Ebbie and Philip Linden: You was never be more successful, then you was or will be when you listen to the voice of your Customers. And I say this, as you spoke about Content creators being the most important user in second life. I say this: without a customer base, we as content creators are as profitable as you will be without us, or our customer base. I.E. The users of Second Life, who you also wish to become the users of Second Life 2.0.

    As remember without someone to buy and use, what you make then you only make something that improves your life. And not the lives of millions of others. So if you make something, that no one will use. Then you have made an over grown paper weight.

    That said, to be a great Leader, one must have great Followers. As with great power, comes an even greater responsibility to listen and to take care of those who follow you. Meaning if you listen to use, and take care of us and I mean all of us, then you will continue to do great things and pull a profit.

    But if you shut us out, and exclude us from things. Well Take a lesson from Coke Cola, with what happened when they did not listen to their customers and excluded them from introducing a new product. New Coke, almost became straw that broke the camels back and bank ruptured coke. As you need us, just as we need you in the business world with pulling a profit to be successful.

    animorf Kawadias

    June 27, 2014

  • While I agree all users should be important in the new platform (if you make content and no one is there to buy it not profitable for content creators or ll) I think what may have been ment or perhaps should have been is without content free or bought then as great as the platform is as I’m sure it will probably be there isn’t alot else to draw new users both from sl and other places so content creators are extremely important at this point. Another reason they should have the ability to import at least some things from sl. The product gets them there the content keeps them there hopefully and possibly draws even more people. The more content creators do early on hopefully the better chance it has. seen some really good game systems fail and other things cause of little or poor content

    waycomp2002

    June 27, 2014

  • I just have one gripe if i may? I have spent hundreds of dollars US on tier payments, clothes, shoes, and hair etc etc now your telling me that i can’t take it with me to this new platform?? That is absurd and LL will lose people because of this not to mention it is unfair? Not to have 3rd party viewers is also unfair because LL can’t make a good viewer the residents should have the rite to chose what viewer they want to use!! LL will also lose residents because of this also!! So the question i have is how is this going to be better for SL???..its NOT!!!
    Thank you for listening

    Bethann Andel

    June 27, 2014

  • I’ve also spent hundreds of dollars, probably thousands over the years, on SL and the content within, but you know… I’m still excited about this change. I see it as being no different than moving from World of Warcraft to Wildstar. Sure I spent a bunch of time and money on WoW, but it’s time to move on to bigger and better things. And LL has done a great job of pushing the Second Life platform to it’s limits and beyond what I ever thought they could do with it. It’s time to start anew.

    Amara Farspire

    June 29, 2014

  • If you were really trying to make a point you wouldn’t use Wildstar the WoW killer lol. Totally made the rest of your comment pointless.

    Zombina

    June 29, 2014

  • Inworldz here we come? Perhaps now, content creators will give it a chance.

    myeshiaB

    July 7, 2014

  • I don’t understand why Linden Lab drop this bomb before they can tell us wot will happen? A lot of residents are worried!
    I have been in SL for about 6 years. I have friends, a wife i have been with more than 5 years in SL, and that i do LOVE. I have spend a lot of Money to clothes etc, and a lot of houers to look how i do. Is all that lost?
    I want to add that Firestorm is the best viewer i ever have tried and i do know that Jessica will do her best to keep it going.
    Thanks to Jessica!
    And if someone read this, then don’t take me wrong: SL is the only life i have.
    Freja String

    Freja String

    June 27, 2014

  • As a content creator, I am concerned as “animorph” upthread with the statement that content creators will be LL’s main customers, for the same reason. If average users are not LL’s focus or if content creators are charged fees to create, it will simply force the content creators back into more traditional (and might I add lucrative) programming and design venues.

    First, one must assume that Linden Scripting Language as we know it will be broken in many places, if not completely non-functional. The alternative needs to be set out there, along with functional testing environments, months in advance of a change. Months, LL. Not weeks or days. Moreover, should LL finally deliver on the idea that established scripting languages like JavaScript, Perl, or PHP could be used in-world, then the appropriate proprietary libraries need to be published well in advance.

    Second, all the “vision” and stuff is well and good, but LL really needs to find a few folks to put in middle management positions who have experience outside web development and gaming. There is a total lack of “mission critical” thinking within LL, and grabbing a few database managers with backgrounds in banking or CMS might not be a bad idea. At the very least, with a transition of this magnitude in the planning stages, LL needs set firm timelines for release of SDKs, design documents, and specs, so that content creators will be ready for SL 2.0. And LL, “well in advance” means months, not days or hours, before release.

    Djeaux Farrasco

    June 27, 2014

  • SL is rapidly becoming obsolete, so yes SL is doomed that’s why LL is probably already in talks with facebook in order to make this new platform very much compatible with oculus rift.
    Don’t be surprised if facebook becomes the new owners of SL

    mayraaryam

    June 27, 2014

  • Gee, Facebook’s Zuckerberg just plunked 2 billion USD down to buy Oculus. You think he’s got the cash to buy Linden Labs? And what happens then?

    Facebook’s out there data-mining their users for all they’re worth. What will SL be like once everyone realizes the same guy who turned Facebook into the road company of 1984 is watching everything they do and data-mining every cyber chat?

    angelpatty

    July 18, 2014

  • I watched the video and I have a few observations.

    * The key phrase is “as long as it’s profitable”, which I felt was skirted around the whole video, except for the encouragement to spend as usual to keep profits up. That’s an ominous phrase that has many afraid to spend. There is a paradox here. Should we spend to keep up profitability and then find it’s not enough? Should we not spend and cause the demise that was inevitable anyway? I don’t share your enthusiasm that SL will be here for years to come if we just do as we always have and act like those words were never spoken.

    * Parts of the video seemed a bit canned to me, a bit heavy on the support of LL and trying to do damage control.

    * This isn’t an MMO where people spend a monthly fee to play a game, it’s a virtual world where people have spent thousands of dollars on items and land. It’s a huge investment no one wants to lose, myself included. How LL handles this dilemma is going to be a major factor as to whether the new VW success or fails.

    * People keep asking for open source on the new VW. I agree with Jessica, you can’t release a new product as open source as soon as it’s released, it needs time to have an identity, to even be a success, before even thinking about releasing it to the public. Even then, why would LL release source code on something brand spanking new they just spent years developing? If anything, I’d like to see SL 1.0 released if the new VW is a success.

    * What wasn’t addressed at all in the video is some of the perceived reasons why LL is developing a new system. After the recent TOS changes with user-created content, one could argue that one of the main reasons for the new VW is so that LL can put a stranglehold on owning what users create. That doesn’t sit well with me. If there are indeed ulterior motives to seize ownership of user-created content in the new VW concept, I don’t want to be a part of it.

    * Kudos to Jessica for saying how it is, that she has zero confidence in the new VW being a success, stressing the very reasons why LL has failed for so many years. Listen to the users, spend time in SL and actually get to know the community, then make informed decisions. Don’t go off in a direction we don’t want to go.

    As a creator in SL since 2007, I share the fears. I’m not panicking, but I’m making preparations for the inevitable demise of Second Life. We might be here for years to come, as Jessica says, but I’m hedging my bets and preparing for the worst. Knowing LL and knowing how they think, it wouldn’t surprise me if SL is meets its doom within the next two years. I’m not trying to spread fear, I’m saying how I honestly feel about it. I don’t trust that LL will do the right thing by the community. That in itself is enough for me to have doubts that far outweigh any hopes that SL will last for years to come.

    Yingzi Xue

    June 27, 2014

  • Very well voiced. +1

    Jessica Lyon

    June 27, 2014

  • Simulaur reasoning is probably why alot of people are freaking out over the news. They can claim perfect weather all they want but we have no garentee. (In saying this I understand we never had a garentee that sl would last as long as it did something for which many have been happy about that it has lasted) I would love to see the new program work out as long as sl stays and linden labs has given as close to a positive answer as a business usually can. If it keeps making us money it will stay (not an exact word for word) how much money is considered enough though (not asking for a figure one day one amount will be enough but another day? for now I except that a as good enough answer and will table that worry for the moment. But they haven’t said if the new world will have building blocks like prims or maybe other alternatives or just be all sculpt or mesh. Mesh is not really easy to modify and in sl there are prim and sculpt bodies (for example) or even clothing that you can at least a bit of control over the coloring maybe even shape and size the one thing I hated about mesh your confined to a more strict set of what you can and can’t do with it. and if you can’t make Mesh or sculpt your stuck cause you certainly can’t do alot in comparison after would. I’d rather be able to have the option to not just look like everyone else or not have all of my products look exactly like everyone else’s. the ability to add your own touch or customization in second life has been a great part of what has made it work better some other virtual worlds you are stuck you can bye a new body but if 1000 people get that body over several months how can you not look like a copy different shirts hats and other clothing and accessories only go so far more info from the beginning would have been better if they didn’t have it then perhaps they could have waited longer before giving us this vague info with very little outline if any outline

    waycomp2002

    June 27, 2014

  • I would hope that the new VW would have direct mesh manipulation in-world, so that you don’t have to work with an external program like Blender (but still allow that option). An ideal VW, to me, would have the tools readily available to make anything you want via the viewer; mesh sculpting, texturing, etc. Having that freedom would indeed make for a much better experience than SL can currently provide and open up creativity again where it was lost due to the learning curve of sculpts and mesh.

    To this day, there isn’t a comprehensive complete building tutorial in SL. It’s either given piecemeal via classes, self-taught through confusing in-world displays or someone passes the knowledge by teaching you one-on-one. Even with the best efforts, most still don’t learn how to effectively use the grid for prim alignment.

    Whatever build interface VW has, it should be easy and intuitive so all can benefit. This would bring more creativity than ever before, because it would be more accessible to all.

    Yingzi Xue

    June 27, 2014

  • Added note. I still find it sad that every viewer comes with the grid units set to 0.500, which is too coarse for building effectively. Most people I know use 0.025 instead. If you design a virtual world, the details matter. Something as simple as leaving a grid unit setting at 0.500 can cause frustration and confusion when a new builder tries to use it and doesn’t get the results they expect. This oversight alone may have turned away many a builder.

    I hope LL learns from their mistakes.

    Yingzi Xue

    June 27, 2014

  • Well said.

    I do understand the interest in a new platform..it’s simply a matter of difficulty, when you get right down to it. After 11+ years of patches, bandaids, work-a-rounds, ect, the base code has reached a point that to significantly upgrade it (or even properly fix some of the nagging issues that already exist) – it’s simpler, faster, and cheaper to start from scratch.

    I also get that will present a problem for importing some items from the existing sl, but not be a problem for other items.

    The two keys to me, you and Jessica nailed on the head. FIrst and foremost, LL must learn from it’s mistakes and seriously start listening to their users. Not just TPV developers, or content creators – *ALL* of us.

    The second is, given their history, I have no faith that they have, or will, learn that lesson until they do somethign soo dumb (i.e. the New Coke fiasco) that the corporation will colapse and die the way Coca-Cola almost did.

    For the love of sanity if nothing else..stop making such broad, vague, empty ‘announcements’. Those alone can almost be corporate suicide.

    Aremon

    June 28, 2014

  • I think you summed it up admirably EXCEPT for the “third man in the room,” Mark Zuckerberg. The guy who’ll push, ever so gently at first, for a peep-hole into everything we do online, just as he does in Facebook.

    angelpatty

    July 18, 2014

  • Personally I’m neither excited nor frightened with the news about the new platform. What disappoints me about this video is the lack of any specific info even about the ideas behind new platform.

    Mystery Keeper

    June 27, 2014

  • sorry if I have posted to much or have been to opinionated on my posts

    waycomp2002

    June 27, 2014

  • So I see that folks are still avidly posting without research :D. No big surprise.

    I watched the video, appreciated that you and Saffia took time to produce it, and agreed with most things said. I just added a post on the MOSP blog linking to the video.

    I DO personally think Firestorm is the best viewer *wink* but that is probably not a bad thing to say.

    Some new info from Ebbe has been revealed since the filming and while it has been mentioned on many threads and likely blog posts, I will repeat it here on THIS thread which might remain a little more sane and less whinny (just my opinion) than the last one here.

    This info is from Ebbe from the SL forums. Nearing 1000 comments it is under General Discussion and entitled “Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world”. You can find all this by looking for Ebbe’s post on this thread there. I am guessing most folks don’t want to spend all day doing so, 😀

    Here is what has been told in part.

    * SOME items will be portable (it is not clear and perhaps not known at this point how the movement will happen ). As Jessica surmised textures are no problem. MESH is also portable and while PRIMS are in the TBA category it is simple enough — if they are your own items — to turn prims to mesh using the FS viewer (or other TPVs).

    * Animations will be completely different as well as scripting language (currently C# is the front runner but no decision has been confirmed).

    So while much furniture will be “portable”, things with animations and scripting will be broken. Static furniture like tables, plants, etc will in theory be just fine.

    * Avatars will be “much improved”. This likely means (no confirmation but logic dictates) that they will be mesh avatars. A citizen thought has been voiced about including legacy avatars as a choice.

    *Lindens will be the currency and transferable in both directions.

    Everything is a very long way in the future and while some folks seem to enjoy panic, I for one do not. I especially liked Jessica’s comment about leaving for other worlds to start over when we have a perfectly good one here. There have been new arrivals in Inworldz and some may stay — but if you like shinies at all, there is nothing to compare to SL. So before burning any bridges I would suggest researching new lands WELL. See if you can get an avatar and a home that will compare to what you currently have before jumping ship.

    Chic Aeon

    June 27, 2014

  • Or keep a foot in both worlds.

    Caoilin

    June 27, 2014

  • Yeah to early to jump ship and there may be absolutely no need too people have concerns both about what we have and what will eventually come. I would suggest to ll and only a suggestion next time you want to make a big announcement be nice to have more details maybe even pictures or video. A lot of good stuff have come from the company please at least listen to some of the feedback which I am sure you do but some people do have valid concerns or ideas and alot of concerns and idea helped make sl what it is today that could help the new virtual world as well. Lastly alot of the users will not me 3d modelers it will make it alot more complicated for some having only mesh to work with even with in world tools if that could be possible it greatly limits what can be done

    waycomp2002

    June 27, 2014

  • I think people should be very careful when making statements such as textures aren’t a problem. I’ve purchased textures in Second Life that are limited to being used in Second Life, that’s the EULA I agreed to when I purchased said textures.

    Movement of inventory could create a very big can of worms, it’s something to be wary of for both Linden Lab and end users.

    Ciaran Laval

    June 30, 2014

  • The problems related to inventory content will most probably not be of legal nature , if I understand right what Ebbe answered to my related question on the SL forum.

    I asked :

    Is SL2 to be considerd “another grid” in which case the TOS of most full permission creators would prohibit the transfer to that grid? If that is the case, could LL speak a word of power and decide that for full permission items that CAN be transfered, the new SL should be considered as the “same grid” ?

    And Ebbe answerd :

    ToS will not be an issue.

    And i interpret that answer (by Ebbe you must always interpret his answers coz thy are given in Nostradamus manner, if at all) as either :

    a – the new SL will be considerd as the SAME GRID in this matter

    or

    b – Since LL has all the rights on all the content in SL and all content creators agreed to that , their individual TOS wont apply here.

    Therefore the problems related to the transfer of inventory will in my oppinion not be of legal nature but only of technical nature. And from that point of view there are a lots of problems..

    Mony Lindman

    July 1, 2014

  • The problem is that all content creators have not agreed to LL’s new terms of service, some haven’t logged in for years. This is why LL should stay away from content transfer and it should be left in the hands of content creators.

    There’s a potential massive can of worms if LL get involved.

    Ciaran Laval

    July 2, 2014

  • Linden Lab have done some dumb things in the past. But put yourself in their shoes. Your main business is over a decade old and is fundamentally the same as it was at the start. The world is changing. Look forward 5 years and you can see even more competition for people’s time and money. VR, smartphones, tablets, social media etc. etc. Wouldn’t you want to have a new product ready?
    For example, how in Second Life, as we know it, can anyone build anything that relies on fast movement – or even accurate movement? A soccer match where avatars can realistically play a game? Let alone do it in 3D VR?
    Like Jessica, I’m not optimistic LL will succeed, but I can understand exactly why they would try. I know I would in their place.
    Why will they fail? They don’t seem to get that SL is a collaborative world, and the more they engage and let us in, the more buy-in they get. The good news for them is the passion this announcement has generated. It shows we as customers have a loyalty to their product that most businesses would give their eye teeth for. If they can tap that loyalty – exemplified by the TPV community – they can build something truly great.
    Will it replace Second Life? I’m not sure even if it does succeed. I am not a skilled content creator, but I like to build and adapt for my sim and mix and modify clothing for outfits. If all I could do was put together professionally made stuff I had bought, it wouldn’t be MY sim. So there may be a place for Second Life broadly as it is, alongside a new whizzy VR immersive world.

    Kay Wittels

    June 27, 2014

  • My only advice is to keep enjoying SL because it’s very likely going to be 2-3 years before the new platform is ready for testing and another year or two before it’s stable enough for any level of decent concurrency.

    The sky is NOT falling. The end is NOT neigh. I refuse to listen to gloom and doom. Also, there is not a chance in hell the new platform will make EVERYONE happy, any more than the current platform makes everyone happy.

    Cincia Singh

    June 27, 2014

  • If they want to make the current SL better, they can promise me that if I buy lindens to use on SL then I will get a credit for those lindens on the new world they are creating. If they can’t promise that then my experience on SL now will be impacted because I will refrain from buying lindens and won’t be able to enjoy SL the way I could by enjoying new products or services.

    Tex

    June 27, 2014

  • I also asked Ebbe this question in the SL forum and he answered this time with a clear YES. I quote :

    “Will at least the L$ currency remain the same and will available balances be usable in both worlds?

    Yes”

    Mony Lindman

    July 1, 2014

  • Creativity feeds on imperfection and uncertainty. A perfect world with stable parameters. Might seem desirable, but soon very boring.
    The history of SL has been finding ways of overcoming obstacles. That’s why it continues to work. Long live SL.

    EllaGuru Wellesley

    June 28, 2014

  • What gets me is that secondlife has so much potential there are virtual worlds out there (I’m keeping sl as my main focus) that use opensim and they can do things sl can’t sl has the potential to do these things and more but linden labs seems to think or some do that it’s too old. open sim or alot of them aren’t usually nearly developed (that I can see) as secondlife and some of these worlds are striving toward sl standards. A good example of a cool feature is the ability to use an adriod to capture you running or walking and use that movement to move your avatar. You could be on a treadmill and move around. what else could the software do if they looked at the possibilities.

    waycomp2002

    June 28, 2014

  • I am not promoting other grids in what I said I am saying stuff is being done and basically some of linden labs is seeming to believe (just the impression I get) there isn’t alot that can be done.

    waycomp2002

    June 29, 2014

  • on the same note there are alot of nice alternative out there I just like secondlife more opensim has developed alot and I think linden labs should help them more as they have helped in the past

    waycomp2002

    June 29, 2014

  • Content has been a big reason I am staying in sl and my friends not the only reasons but those are big ones

    waycomp2002

    June 29, 2014

  • Jessica, I’m glad you pointed out that the last 10 minutes were important in this video. I would ask that you take a look at this… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpsSfqJfjoo

    Hammer

    June 28, 2014

  • Well to be honest all I want to do is to be able to make almost all of my content in world if I so choose. I can do it in Minecraft, but even in SL I have to use external editors to make most of the content I want, including textures, animations, and sounds. There’s no easy way to program a game with a fixed character width display, or at least no prim light way to do it. Being able to import content is nice as well, but if you ask me there should be tools in world where I don’t need to leave the environment to make things, or edit existing things if I have permissions.

    DoomRater

    June 28, 2014

  • I think people are too close and don’t see this from a true perspective. A couple of comments from my perspective as a retired CPA and former controller:
    Linden Labs is not a large company. Much is made of LL and SL being the largest and most successful of like companies. Reverse that: Sl, for all its success, is not a major ANYTHING, at least from a business view. The reason that LL is most successful is that they are not much more than a ‘proof of design’ and it is either a successful failure or a failed success. No one bigger is in the market because it won’t support them and it isn’t worth the money.

    All this money being spent by LL – to make a more successful SL? Really? From an independent marketing POV, what would a major success be? A 25% improvement in market? 50%? That still would not justify spending the money to make a ‘next generation SL’.

    To justify this money, they have to be thinking of a different, expanded or augmented market in which the old SL crowd is an after thought. I think it is time to move on to hyperlinked OpenSim for what SL used to provide. I’ve been through the land collapses – it isn’t about logic and reasoning, it is about confusion and lack of trust. And LL has the latter in spades right now.

    Curtis Russell

    June 28, 2014

  • @Yingzi Xue I very much agree with what you have said, and the reason I agree with that has to do with this. I have been on six other open source platforms on the OS Grids. And it is for that reason that I agree with Jessica, and that I will not put much faith in Linden Lab creating another successful version of Second Life.

    Now the reason I say this, is not because I am being supportive of Linden Lab. As truth be told I am actually not that supportive of Linden Lab. But here is the reason why I agree with Jessica. In each of those 6 cases of, being on another OS grid, such as Avinations, SpotON3D, Inworldz and others. the main reason for those grids, not being able to duplicate the success that Linden Lab has had, with second life is because they each in their own way excluded the very people that was their target base through various means.

    One such grid, and I will not state the name of. But that one grid required you to have a premium account to do anything, including to drag a chair or house you bought to land you owned unless you had a premium account. Or you went to a free for use by free accounts sand box, where you could rezz the item you had, to be able to use it.

    Now another reason why those grids, have not been successful has to do with that all their friends and family was still on second life. So not only was they having to start over on a new grid with their inventory, but they had to make new friends as well as form new relationships with those who would become their family. Only to see their new family slowly return to life over on second life.

    Now what Jessica was pointing out, is that if we all suddenly stop buying things in second life. Then we have effectively committed suicide by causing the market and economy in second life to collapse. Thus causing second life to suddenly stop making a profit. Now if that’s something that happens within a couple of days, weeks or even a couple of months before the new grid is even off the ground. Well guess what, you can all kiss second life bye bye before the new grid even gets released. And guess what that means? It means that we cause Linden Lab to file Chapter 13, and close their doors and liquidate everything. Months or even years before Second Life 2.0 gets released.

    So if you all stop buying right now, you can pretty well count on there not even so much as being a second Life 2.0. Because I can guarantee you this, the magic silver bullet to kill second life is causing its economy to collapse and vanish.

    Now to Linden Lab: Your silver bullet to success is, the very people that make up your target customer base. and as I said not just content creators, I mean consumers as well as content creators. As we as content creators are also consumers, as well as merchants who sale product to those who cannot make items. There are things I cannot make, that I still buy in second life some of those things I include in the things I make and sale. And it is a lot easier for me, to buy things like animations then to have to sit down and create the sculpty maps, textures, scripts, animations, sounds and and then convert it all over in to a mesh items that requires scripts, animations and sounds.

    Case in point, if I make a Motorcycle, and I cannot make the scripts or the animations. I sure want to be able to go and buy those things, to support a merchant that does make those things.

    animorf Kawadias

    June 28, 2014

  • Oh the last thing I will say to Linden Lab, is this. Your success is in a large part due to Beta Testers. And the reason I say that, is because when you as Linden Lab first compiled, what was soon to become Second Life on November 21, 2002 and entered in to Beta Testing. You effectively opened the doors, to your target base and started listening to those very early beta testers. And gaining their input on, what needed fixing and what did not need fixing so it would become easier to use. So my advice to you, still remains the same on things if you proceed to develop second life 2.0 as it has been dubbed. Duplicate that process, and use your very target base as beta testers, and third party developers through third party development meetings. By asking them for their input on things with how to make that grid as good as the original, so that we will wish to leave second life to make second life 2.0 a success.

    Meaning make second life 2.0 Beta Public, and let us help you develop it. After all you are building it for us, why not include us in the process of its development. As we wish to tell you, as your consumers what will make our lives easier and better as users of both second Life, and second Life 2.0 if it becomes a reality.

    And allow the TPV’s to help you develop the best and easiest viewer for use. As Jessica said, the Firestorm viewer is not the easiest to use. But it is the most successful because they listen to their clients, and provide them with the in world support they need to be able to use it much easier. By teaching them how to fix problems that they experience, as well as doing things like teaching them how to file Jira’s and so one. That is the Key to Success is listening to the very people, you are creating things for and helping them to be able to use it.

    animorf Kawadias

    June 28, 2014

  • Hi,

    While all sorts of interesting people have all sorts of wonderful opinions in all this, in reading, I keep seeing some with obvious and not so obvious [but also not so sly] comments discounting various options outside of SL.

    For myself, I have no issues with SL, or even whatever SL2 becomes, as well as Hi-Fi.

    What I do have issues with is disinformation concerning other grids and such happening out in the greater Metaverse, that it would behoove people to check into for themselves.

    I would love for people to be as fully and completely informed as possible and not be victims of those who promote various grids and wish to keep people misinformed or keep their eyes closed, in any ways they can, to what is going on.

    This entire conversation [and the other one here] is really, bottom line, about changes in technology. And anyone who has used the net over several decades knows very well it moves on, sometimes very quickly, sometimes some software lasts on and on, even past it’s prime, because so many like it, as is the case with SL, and why all the passion expressed.

    However, the talk of an SL2 and Hi-FI, should, at the very least keen clear thinkers to the bottom line fact that an 11 year old platform is really a long run for software that has, essentially, been the same.

    For example, the standard 256×256 region size…technology has moved past it now. And those who like to be informed “from the horse’s mouth, rather than from people with smallish agendas, can read more about just this one aspect of a changing VR world, here:

    http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/03/variable-regions-come-to-opensim/

    and here:

    http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/06/opensims-official-upgrade-is-out-supports-varregions-and-bullet-physics/

    and here:

    http://opensimulator.org/wiki/0.8_Release

    And in the comments one can find more info.

    Also, land pricing has come down substantially. This is also due to the march of technology and software. Using the cloud to host regions such as http://www.kitely.com/ and http://zetamex.com/cloud-sims.php do is one example.

    Now, some may see people comment in various ways, often within other parts of their comment[s] disinformation of one sort or another about all this. I suggest people interested in the root reasons why SL2 is coming and also Hi-fi is coming, to read up.

    Other than inwz, the rest of the majority of people and grids running on core OpenSim are moving forward as the tech moves forward. One has to only consider why anyone would continue to use software limitations of 11 year old tech, and then consider how much other software and hardware has moved forward in that time…like cellphones?

    As well, many have found running their own regions or grids to allow them to experience full control over everything in them and everything having to do with them.

    You can backup the entire region or grid to your own computer, back that up to online places also, which include the terrain, all region settings, all content, and even the terrain ground textures. It is called an OAR file, as noted here:

    http://justincc.org/blog/2009/09/14/introducing-opensim-inventory-archives-iars/ from one of the Core developers, with links to other information.

    One can also connect their own region simulator instances to several grids. I recommend http://metropolis.hypergrid.org/ because it is a HUB for the hypergated Metaverse, and you can do this free. Read up to see how, if you wish.

    Also, Kitely is doing some very cool innovative things, for those who wish to be in a more commercial oriented environment, while still having access to their growing MarketPlace that also delivers to any other grids who will allow it, but especially to any hypergate enabled grids/regions.

    See these links for more information;

    http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/03/the-race-is-on/
    http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/04/why-kitelys-20-plan-is-the-better-deal/
    http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/06/kitely-market-to-have-delivery-to-high-fidelity/

    In short, if you like SL, then have fun and enjoy all you enjoy there, most people out in the free hypergated Metaverse also still enjoy SL…many of them.

    Here is a new group helping people to explore the HG;

    http://pingsfromtheafterlife.blogspot.com/2014/06/safari-goes-south.html

    Where some may notice some of the names involved, and all are, afaik, still also using SL for all sorts of projects. You can do both, or you can teach yourself with direct information, and you can ask questions of people who do in fact know what is going on.

    I am in no way whatsoever a proponent of any specific grid at all and the only content I do try to sell is my terrains, which is totally independent of any grid [I like it that way….lol]…[I like job security also…lol]

    What I am a major proponent of is helping people to see things clearly and transparently by giving them links to where they can see for themselves.

    You can bet that both HI-FI and SL2 will be doing away with the old tech of 256×256 size regions, simply because that IS 11 year old tech.

    Have fun and here is some more info, personal thoughts, and good links to more info-))

    http://minethere.blogspot.com/2014/06/q2-2014-opensim.html

    Minethere Always

    June 28, 2014

  • An article from yesterday on Engadget might shed some more light on the direction they’re going with SL 2.0…

    http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/27/second-life-social-network-for-virtual-reality/

    Yingzi Xue

    June 28, 2014

  • Of note in the article is the clarification that the reason they want creators is to create experiences that will attract more users. They’re also banking on this new platform attracting game developers that are using engines like Unity and Unreal. If they pull it off and they attract the right people, it might just be the best virtual world ever developed, but they’ve set the bar pretty high for this new VW, I think. At least that’s what I get from the article.

    Yingzi Xue

    June 28, 2014

  • Well from what I read, I don’t share Altberg’s vision. He just seems blind to what he has now. Baby thrown out with the bath water, springs to mind.
    SL has been my home, a creative playground. There really is nothing like it. There is a core community of amazing people. That over the years have conjured magic from the simple prim, pushed sculpts way beyond what could have been envisioned. Now with mesh the creative river, just keeps flowing.
    Sure there will be many who will want the “new”, but there commitment to it will be short lived.

    EllaGuru Wellesley

    June 29, 2014

  • I just wanted to note that while there are plenty of people saying they are not buying AND worrying about people not buying — my business is better than normal, especially for the END of the month in a SUMMER month :D.

    So what people are suspecting might occur just may not. And while I do make items on the portability list, none of the products I have sold in the last few days were things that will migrate over.

    So something to think about.

    Chic Aeon

    June 29, 2014

  • Yes, in spite of the fact that i am one of those who predicted a slow down in sales , i must confirm what you said . At least on the last weekend i got more sales than on an usual summer weekend and during the week it was just like.. normal summer.

    But dont forget that there is still only a small number of SL users who know about this. Not even all content creators found out yet

    Mony Lindman

    July 1, 2014

  • While i admit I have not been in SL for quite some time due to obligations in real life, I have followed the news coming out of LL and the Firestorm Project. I once conceived of and ran TLE (The Learning Experience) in SL which was deemed wildly successful in the area of on-line education while a family member of mine once ran and created Totally Naughty Clothes. So I can include myself in the “creator” category.

    Before I give my opinion, I want to say that below has nothing to do with Firestorm and the team. I have always thought it was an awesome product and Jessica has done the impossible in many ways with it. However, the main point is not Firestorm – it is the future of SL.

    I assume that the following points have been made somewhere along the line but it is impossible to read through all the threads and comments generated on the subject. However I would guess this may have been mentioned in regard to what is being called SL2. The following is simply my own speculation on why there is a need for SL2. Despite all the changes in SL and certainly some very important ones two things are apparent. The engines and asset servers that run the code are becoming antiquated and certainly are incredibly unwieldy. Code changes are difficult and often with the mixture of Open Source and closed routines cause for a great many bugs and difficulties. The second factor is that for a Virtual World to remain viable it must keep up with the various changes in hardware and software technology, and SL as it currently stands is not built for those changes not is it viable. Tablets, smartphones and other devices no matter what is tried, cannot deal with SL at this time. Whether we like it or not, LL has to try and marry SL with the new devices while betting on the fact that these new devices in a year or two will be much more sophisticated in hardware and the ability to run sophisticated software.

    If none of this is planned for then sooner or later SL will just simply get left behind and someone else will develop the true Virtual World reality.

    1. Big Data – LL is way behind in its source code on keeping up with what is going on in the world of computing. This may be due to its marriage with the initial implementation of SL or due to the massive amount of funds it has to invest to stay current. SL is one of the areas that really demands by its nature a sophisticated structure for Big Data and the use of NoSQL databases. This, as anyone in high tech will tell you, is not an easy change and it is costly to say the least especially in the case of SL. However, it no longer can be delayed.

    2. Once upon a time a Virtual World such as SL was a showstopper and certainly a vision of the future. Yet now the future is upon us, and the beginning of “Augmented Reality” albeit in its infancy, is here. LL can not afford to ignore this, by nature of the fact that SL is a virtual world. It must have a way to implement the beginning stream of Augmented Reality tools and gadgets that are going to be coming out. This is critical.

    I am not one to accept the “creators” reason as the real reason behind the beginning of the change. It sounds like LL once again has chose to try and placate its own user base as they go about doing what they think needs to be done. However, in this case, if my speculation is correct, even about just the two factors mentioned above: 1. The change to Big Data Engine & 2. The ability to implement Augmented Reality when it becomes more popular – then the change to SL2 makes both technological and economic sense for LL. If they do not do it, Google, MS, Apple or FB will or some other start-up.

    I think the user base of SL will have to start getting used to this coming change. I also think LL is not only looking at its current user base, but is planning for the future which is kind of here anyway. It needs to upgrade its entire system to remain viable. It needs to allow for implementation of technologies which are already here and will be here and it has slowly found itself behind the game instead of ahead of it.

    If anyone is interested I am writing a series of articles on Virtual Reality and Augmented Reality, which you can access on LinkedIn. The first part is available here: http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140626181920-122538931-beyond-three-dimensions-virtual-augmented-reality-part-one?trk=object-title

    Kitviel Silberberg

    June 29, 2014

  • It’s times like these I really wish someone had a mesh chicken little avatar for sale.

    Connie Arida

    June 29, 2014

  • I only hope that the FS team wouldn’t drop developing good old FS, at least as long as the new SL really comes out as, say, “alpha-version”.

    Allex Alcove

    June 29, 2014

  • I have made a few comments and this will be the last.
    Why are most people in SL? It’s not the “stuff”. The “stuff” is just props for our interaction with others. This is social media first and content second. Would I rather stand in the most sophisticated reality on my own, or on a bare patch of grass with a dozen others? I do go to great sims to look and enjoy the view (try Mont St Michel) but I don’t spend very long there.
    I am sure I could create a wonderful sim on the latest OS grid for far less money than in SL. But who would I share it with?
    LL needs to remember that when the time comes to tempt people across. Inventory for me is not the deal breaker. My friends are.

    Kay Wittels

    June 29, 2014

  • Saffia named the old competitors like ‘Blue Mars’ http://www.bluemarsonline.com/
    We might remember the panic we were able to see on Lindens with BlueMars (BM) or Google-world(Lively) come around.
    LL were acting somehow moved by Oculus Rift (OR) and Facebook (FB) caught that. This might have been a huge *big* wakeup-call for LL.

    LL may fear FB (and is IMHO doing right to do so).
    LL have a huge advantage above the most competitors. The Residents of SL. We are well settled and do not like to leave friends (and maybe inventory) behind.
    BM were in some ways supreme, but had an important disadvantage – community and content.
    A too long time LL had no clue that FB would take over OR and were still featuring OR (at least indirectly) even as FB were stretching out its hand for OR.

    LL played with Cloud Party (CP) and sold it (including the Devs building that) to yahoo for reason.

    Now LL is building SL2. Ebbe talked early and maybe a bit too intuitive moved about it. This time LL is early – not as with Viewer2 once (which were indeed a fail LL didn’t involved us earlier). Hope even if Ebbe might now feel the interest and sometimes harder words, He could stand that.

    Usually Venture Capitalists (VC) hold their involvement 10 to 15 years. This time is over and LL might like feel some pressure. Really hope LL can stand that. Due the VC structure LL might

    Viewer, somehow on server-side like webGL (or such) and mobile platform were spoiled somewhere. That might be nice and easy to maintains for LL(or the next Owner of SL). But it will kill TPV and might be the consequence of an other use-case of that new ‘game’. So, no hour long dialogs anymore, but a fast ‘play’ of one level while one waits for the bus. That wouldn’t be my SL anymore – sorry – please go on and find that ‘costumers’ for the ‘game’ anywhere else – its not me. Will stay inSL.

    really i hope LL do not get caught by FB and honestly that(FB) is in this times my main fear – not SL2.
    And sure LL need to evolve for the next stage coming in huge steps closer. Competitors were not successful for reason an LL had observed their fail, but now first time since BM feel the real need to act.
    Go LL, GO! ((but do it smart! You have seen other fail and should got a clue why they did.))

    Oh, does anyone know when the shift happened, that we are now ‘customers’ and not anymore ‘residents’?
    My puppeteeress is in my view customer, but i feel to be resident of SL.

    Dil Spitz

    June 29, 2014

  • i spent almost seven years in second life. lost friends who left me treasured jewellery. bred animals for months for different breeds . got clothes used for special occasions . married twice!! and im a vampire with all the effort and time to get to a high level.
    ill go anywhere if the above comes with me !!!

    thetattywitch

    July 1, 2014

  • I think what we all need now is an official statement about the new SL with AT LEAST as much information as Philip Rosedale gives about HiFi here :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5R-UDoQ-pY

    I always had the feeling that this new sl and by all means its premature anouncement were “forced reactions” to the creation of High Fidelity. Watching the above Philip Rosedale overview of HiFi, this feling has grown into certainty.

    LL is just trying to keep up with this development.

    But if I look at the huge vision behind HiFi , which to my understanding seems to be the creation of a whole NEW INTERNET , an intrnet in 3D ! , I can only say that the “new SL” , from what we know about it at this time , will most probably not be able to compete with this.

    Because it doesn’t have the vision and the really global approach that HiFi has by allowing every computer to act as a server and to even get paid for this “job” on one side and by making it run even on cell phones for the normal , low end user on the other side.

    And the idea of making the names of each “world” similar to a domain name on the internet and charge a fee for “domain registration” is also a touch of geniality..

    The new SL, no matter how “shiny” it will be , will not be ble to compete with such a vision of a “whole new 3D internet” but , at best , it will be swallowed by it.

    At which point i had to ask the question : why try to compete with this giant project? Why not just JOIN IT ?

    But then i remembered that LL is already one of the main investors of HiFi , so from their point of view they win anyway coz they have 1 foot in each of these boats. So its a win win situation for LL but … what is it for us ???

    There is however one aspect that may be the chance of LL in this competition: Philip Rosedale didn’t say a single world about CONTENT CREATORS in HiFi or the posibility of making money in THAT WAY. While on the other side, Ebbe insisited exactly on THIS segment of their business as being the most important..

    This may be THE chance of the new SL in this competition, but NOT if LL considers “content creators” as being ONLY those Maya gurus who have their meshes on their HD and can upload them anywhere.

    These “first hand” content creators are a MINORITY of the total amount of content creators in the present SL. The mjority is the “second hand” content creators , who buy the items made by the “first hand”, combine them , modify them and create new items contributing this way to the unequaled variety of content available in the old SL, and driving its economy.

    If LL will leave behind THIS MAJORITY of “second hand” content creators together with 90% of thier inventories , filled with their previous creations and with their investments in future creations, then LL will not survive in this competition!

    Because it ignores exatly that what LL states and KNOWS that is and should remain the BASE of their business. And their only chance ..

    Mesh gurus alone will not create an economy ! They can sell those things from their HD anywhere.. Wile the “second hand” content creators can sell their creations ONLY IN SL ! So you can bet they will stay in SL. In the old SL by all means and, if LL makes it possible .. also in the new SL ..

    But if their years of work and their millions of dollars invested in “first hand” items for future creations will not be ported to the new SL then good luck LL in surviving with only the mesh gurus around and a lot of kids looking for shiny worlds .. and leaving them when they get bored, which kids always do by default..

    Mony Lindman

    July 1, 2014

  • I resent Jessica making fun of and criticizing me and others for how we feel after considering the situation and our own circumstances both RL and SL. I am still in the act of actively reducing my financial obligations in SL and withdrawing roots little by little as quickly and comfortably as possible. Jessica might be right, she also might be the ostrich putting her head in the sand because she WANTS to believe what she says is true and refuses to accept anything else. It’s a common mind trick people play with themselves to avoid truths that they don’t prefer.

    I’m a realist, not unintelligent, have reasoned this out and followed the trail to it’s reasonable conclusion, and I see this as the beginning of the end ultimately. That end may be in a year or four years but it IS coming and I will then lose a majority of the things I spent so much money for and that matter to me. I don’t tell myself fairy tales to make myself feel better and avoid the truth and common sense reasoning. I have already spent too much money in SL as it is and it’s foolish and wasted and I really see that now more than ever before.

    I’m going to divest myself of these financial burdens as quickly as I can including breedables, land- all of it, and just float without obligations or spending any more than the occasional very minor amounts of money. Then whatever happens, happens…it will happen anyway, the only question is how fast.

    In the meantime I will enjoy SL in MY way, in the manner I consider most stress free and prudent considering available information and if Jessica doesn’t like it…oh well, this is MY SL, not hers.

    Windchyme Shepherd

    July 1, 2014

  • +1

    Countess Vollmar

    July 2, 2014

  • It seems to me that we are ignoring something here. Second Life, as it is now, is trapped in 2007’s technology. There is a REASON why a sim is 256 X 256 meters and the prim limits are so low. That is all the servers could handle in 2007 when SL finally made it big. I know for a fact that a 10K X 10K sim is not only possible, they exist. Perhaps SL II is Linden Labs attempt to modernize their product.
    If this is so, they will need a few things: things like allowing an import of up to 30,000 items from SL I, a transfer of equivalent propterty, and if not open source, 3rd prty compliant code. This may sound silly, but if I lose my “Add” choice in equipping my avatar, I may just go elsewhere. I have a Premium account: how many Premiums are Linden Labs willing to lose with a “My way or the Highway” attitude? Somebody seems to have forgotten that Second Life is either a Game or the fanciest Chatroom in the Internet. It is NOT air and water and bread, one can do nicely without it.
    My advice is let Linden Labs keep talking without any hand waving or doomsaying. Let’s see what they have to offer before we get angry.
    Another thing: Who is going to abandon their entire line and recreate everything again for SL II. Are we going to be stuck with Linden Labs avatars as the only avatar source? I wonder if Linden Labs is really aware of what SL I is anymore. It isn’t the original SL. Maybe they’re growing and trying for a better SL experience. Maybe, just maybe, they aren’t saying anything because if they don’t say anything, we can’t call them when they can’t deliver. Maybe the secrecy is their way of avoiding embarrassment. Or maybe they aren’t sure of what they’re going to be doing yet. Methinks that’s the case. Toss ideas out and see who yells. It’s worked before.

    K.MacKellerann

    July 2, 2014

  • […] hace unos días  Jessyca Lyon (Firestorm viewer), Oz Linden y Pete Linden (Linden Labs) sobre el futuro de Second Life y el nuevo mundo virtual que están […]

  • […] Second Life Jessyca Lyon (Firestorm viewer) interviews Oz Linden and Pete Linden (Linden Lab) about The future of Second Life and their new coming soon virtual world under development. Until now, diverse sources were […]

  • I had to read about Ebbe Altberg’s plans for SL in the Guardian. While I’m glad that Linden Labs finally sent people around to explain what Mr. Altberg didn’t but should have, I’m only semi-mollified. LL doesn’t even enforce in-world rules (such as clubs using alts to pad their traffic figures) unless strong and costly outside suasion (like DMCA lawsuits) are involved. So I’ll be interested in learning what SL does as opposed to what it says.

    Now, a little topical musical interlude: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhBa12DobiM

    angelpatty

    July 4, 2014

  • Most (90%+) people I meet under the age of 30 have never heard of second life.
    On-Line when I write this: 1,742,025 Playing on STEAM.
    Total STEAM Members: 5,960,068 Members On-Line Right now.

    For God’s Sake, Just Get LISTED on Steam, they have dozens of free to play on-line games, and Second Life forget something very important: SL is a computer game.

    Of those nearly 7 million STEAM members,
    ALL of them have rocking Game systems.
    ALL of them have good internet connections.
    MOST of them are upper income – or at least have
    enough income to afford a great computer and buying games.

    Second Life: GET ON STEAM.

    STEAM has a big push marketing Steam Boxes:
    mini PCs all configured out with great graphics and CPU,
    memory and storage perfect for all modern games.

    GET ON STEAM.

    ChrisJacobs Theseus

    July 9, 2014

  • Chris, I think it’s the people you hang out with. I started Second Life in my very early 20’s and so did my sister and most of my friends are in their 20’s. I thought SL was already listed on Steam for at least a year now? I am certain that I have heard something about Second Life and Steam, either it is already listed on Steam or they were planning on it. I do not believe adding SL to steam would honestly help. I actually have a Steam account but the people I talk to when I play MMORPG’S have already at least tried SL at some point…but a friend mine in his own words prefers “blowing up stuff” lol. SL is a social community and people who are hardcore gamers may not find SL to be something that they would play often. I myself do go from SL to my Steam games but when I want to play games I go to Steam and when I want to play SL I have no issue using the client to log into SL.

    Trem Ember

    July 16, 2014

  • I came to the conclusion that second life is my home, and I just want to enjoy it. After all, that’s what it’s here for. Living in the moment is a great way to be in any life. 😉

    Ross Exandir

    July 25, 2014

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    seznamka badoo

    September 3, 2014